News (beta) Multiplayer Rankings

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by J-F Chardon, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Joakim Tärnström

    Joakim Tärnström Active Member

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    I suggest you read carefully what I said. Do you know the meaning of the word “possibility”? I have not produced any evidence, neither have I ever claimed to do so. And funnily enough, you haven’t produced any evidence either.
     
  2. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Apr 8, 2015
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    +2,411 / 0 / -0
    Looking at the topic from a more general pov, I think it's fair to say that this is a premise I haven't seen officially stated anywhere.
    And I think this might be the fundamental disagreement.
    Tho desirable it may be, enforcing clean racing isn't the purpose of the ranking system as it is.
    It could be, but it would require additional tools and the fact those tools don't exist can be interpreted as a sign that the system wasn't built around that idea as a guiding principle.
    In its current state the system is basically neutral and only penalises excessive infringements. That approach undoubtedly has up- and downsides and it largely depends on ones pov which outweigh the other.

    One thing I can attest for: We've tried several versions of a blaming system and they all could be tricked, even by an old simpleton like myself. ;)
     
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  3. Joakim Tärnström

    Joakim Tärnström Active Member

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    Everybody has to accept the limitations of what can be done, of course. If people just looked at my argument as somebody raised a point, it might be something to it, let’s see if there is a trend where unfair driving is rewarded by the system. If this is the best we can do, so be it. It is still the platform I prefer among the competition. And I might be in the wrong, I can accept that too. To be right wasn’t the purpose of raising the issue.
     
  4. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
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    +352 / 0 / -0
    Seeing higher numbers is already a reward in itself, for some.

    Only if it gets enough attention.

    A "random" push here, a "missed" braking point there, and the "unexploitable" system is exploited. Is it a realistic scenario? It looks like that, to me.
     
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  5. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Feb 10, 2017
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    +103 / 0 / -0
    Wow... "You disregard" is a statement. Probability was used in reference to behaviour changes.
    I feel strange trying to explain to you your own words.
    You have no way of knowing if it was disregarded or not (if you had you wouldn't be here discussing it), yet you seem to claim you do.

    I've provided you with a log that shows that my misadventures didn't affect my stats. And I was even DQ'ed for points in one of those races I was on the receiving end of the crashing. Yet you fail to accept any evidence or opinion that is not supporting your case. If someone says something was checked, you say it wasn't done well enough.

    I'm done with this conversation. It brings nothing to the topic.
     
  6. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    While technically it's true, I have a very, very strong suspicion that many players do see this system as one enforcing clean racing. "If it looks like a duck", you know... So it's not much of a disagreement, but more like misunderstanding. If there's a misunderstanding between developers and players, there's a source for conflict. "[We made a system that creates confusion, but] we didn't openly state anything about it" - yeah, that's not fine and I believe things like that should be cleared out (and not on the forums or on Discord).

    I had an unfortunate experience with developers who actually used this excuse to manipulate their players, so I'm quite bitter when I see it. I don't believe you're the devs that would do that, though, but I think this issue could definitely see some improvement.
     
  7. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +873 / 0 / -0
    It also happens in real racing where the stakes are much higher, so you'll never stop it in a game. The question is are the majority of people here to race properly or to try and cheat the system? My experience is the former. I've had mostly very good experiences in the ranked servers so far, certainly far better than any true open servers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I have the same experience. That's why I'm sceptical when the proponents of the current system make such a big deal out of the fact that it apparently can't be exploited and that blaming systems are unacceptable because they can. I don't think there's this sharp line between these systems.

    (I'm not arguing with you, just adding my thoughts.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  9. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
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    Well no system is unexploitable. As mentioned there is always the opportunity to trade rep for position, and the advantage will lie with those with high rep in this regard.

    If you can think of a system whereby blame could be apportioned that isn't immediately exploitable to a much greater extent then I'm sure the Devs would be all ears.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
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    +103 / 0 / -0
    Think about it. Let's say there is a rammer that wants to cheat the system and tries to sacrifice rep over rating.
    In a no blame system rammer will get 4 points just like the driver being rammed. Over a period of a week rammer hit multiple people and get more points than each individual person he rammed.
    Now the challenge here is to balance the system in a way that rammers drop in rep enough to prevent them from joining rep limited servers or whatever we can come up with that would limit this behaviour.

    If the system was changed to assign blame and was exploitable. Then the rammer trying to exploit the system would get 0 points and person he rammed would get 4. Rammers could freely destroy other peoples races while gaining rep and rating.
    How would you balance this system?
    Which system is better?

    If there was perfect solution or even a good one someone would be already using it and others would be copying it.

    I'm not saying the current system is perfect and shouldn't be changed. But, it makes more sense to focus on balancing current system than changing it. The big question how to discourage rammers from trying to exploit the system.
     
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  11. NicoCL68

    NicoCL68 Member

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    Nov 23, 2020
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    +21 / 0 / -0
    Not yet enough beta state ? When will we exit beta time ?
     
  12. marciovs28

    marciovs28 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Ratings:
    +75 / 0 / -0
    the game itself is still in BETA since 2014o_O
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. NicoCL68

    NicoCL68 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    This is already too much. New server issue. I was in third position in last lap in Spa in EU Server some minutes ago.
    In the last straight i don't see for a moment the two first but one moment after I recover them and finish in third position. Then in the result I appear disconnected, finishing in 18th loosing 27 rating when I should win 30.

    I have the replay to prove this
    Ho will turn back to me my points ?
     
  14. S. FREDRIKSSON

    S. FREDRIKSSON Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2020
    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -0
    You will not get back any points, they have already gone to the other drivers. You should put your effort in finding out the reasons for your connection issues.
    Technical issues are a part of motorsport and no points are "turned back".
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. Sebastien DEPLEDT

    Sebastien DEPLEDT New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
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    +1 / 0 / -0
    hello, yesterday I had a server crash on a competition server and here is the result .... have you already had this? i think it's a problem
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Ratings:
    +278 / 0 / -0
    There´s something going on with the game right now and I don´t think it´s at the user end. Two of the weekly ranked server streamers got kicked from ranked servers in the last week switching between Q and R and I am getting this issue where other cars all disappear for a couple of seconds then magically reappear, usually near the start of a race.

    It seems so close to a server kick or crash that it´s too risky to play on ranked right now.
     
  17. Sebastien DEPLEDT

    Sebastien DEPLEDT New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
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    +1 / 0 / -0
    the developers should communicate the above ... I will take 3 months to raise my rating!
     
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  18. Pro_10

    Pro_10 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2019
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    [QUOTE = "yoori, publicación: 226094, miembro: 10079"] ¿Qué no tiene fundamento?

    Su sugerencia fue duplicar la cantidad de puntos otorgados al conductor detrás.
    Ya se dijo que las personas que frenaran temprano abusarían de esto de inmediato para que los golpearan desde atrás.
    Con 8 puntos de incidentes, se necesitarían 4 contactos para descalificarte. Esa es la vuelta 1 en el peor de los casos en el mediocampo. Estaría perdiendo mucha reputación si la gente se quiebra al revisarlo o cambiar de línea al frenar.
    Si quieres un ejemplo, fue una penalización por no respetar la bandera azul, creo que duró algo así como de 1 a 3 días. La gente siguió conduciendo detrás de alguien con una bandera azul hasta que fueron descalificados.

    Desde mi experiencia, todas las ideas son bienvenidas, analizadas e implementadas si tienen sentido.
    Tu idea ya se presentó varias veces. Los probadores beta han declarado varias veces que estaban probando múltiples ideas para hacer que el sistema asignara la culpa y cada una de ellas podría explotarse fácilmente.

    ¿Es eso sustancial?

    Entiendo que estás enojado porque te chocan. He estado allí hasta el punto de que dejé de correr por un tiempo. En realidad, es mucho mejor ahora que entonces.

    Traté de darte algunos consejos que mejoraron las cosas para mí, claramente no estás aquí para eso, lo siento. [/ QUOTE]
    [QUOTE = "Vale, publicación: 228153, miembro: 19574"] Algo está sucediendo con el juego en este momento y no creo que esté al final del usuario. Dos de los streamers de servidores clasificados semanales fueron expulsados de servidores clasificados en la última semana al cambiar entre Q y R, y tengo este problema en el que otros autos desaparecen durante un par de segundos y luego reaparecen mágicamente, generalmente cerca del comienzo de una carrera.

    Parece tan cercano a una patada o caída del servidor que es demasiado arriesgado jugar en la clasificación en este momento. [/ QUOTE]
     
  19. Pro_10

    Pro_10 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Clearly, no rating system is perfect, but it can be improved by correcting any errors that appear.

    A turning point at this point would be to adjust the scoring system, fix those server issues, and reset the counter for everyone.

    since in the end we will be in our place at the table in no time.

    For example, I have lost more than 300 ranked points due to falls beyond my control.
    The same thing will always happen to me, in the middle of the race they just switched me to the front hood camera and then they took me off the server.

    so imagine my frustration, I am an experienced, fast and clean runner.

    Right now relegated in 1940 points, if you add up those 300 of the server drops, you would be in the second position in the world ranking table.
    Once they took up to 117 points from me for a pig driver who could not think of anything other than to hit me from behind, broke my engine and I couldn't move, I had to quit.

    then the motivation is not the same.
    and a lot of people are leaving out the rankings for the same thing.

    so I think a good restructuring, counters to zero and to enjoy again.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  20. KOKORO ga PYONPYON

    KOKORO ga PYONPYON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Ratings:
    +203 / 0 / -0
    I understand the frustration that you see in the comments on this forum.
    I have also received many unreasonable and unfair penalty points.
    But if you have the time to record, edit, and report the video for that protest, it's better to stay calm and take on the next race.
    Change the time you hit the keyboard in the forum to the time you grab the steering wheel on the circuit
    Every experience on the circuit will help you

    Neither the race nor the forum should be too hot.
    Let's enjoy the race together!
     
    • Like Like x 2