How do you enjoy racing against AI

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by anno900, Sep 19, 2022.

  1. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    Hi there,
    I opened this thread to talk about (or get hints) how you enjoy racing against AI. I mean do you run championships or just do single raceweekends or even just quick races.
    For quite a long time I have been running short championships with fixed AI or AAI and what I enjoyed most was battling for winning the championship, but that happened quite seldom. With AAI I was mainly somewhere midpack, so no chance of battling for the championship victory. At some tracks I could win, at some dead last. When I used fixed AI, where I knew that it should be good enough that I can run mainly about top 5 per race, the result was that at few tracks I won by far. So in the end it was an issue that I or AI ist not consitent enough from to track.
    For some reason I always liked championships (Not only in racing Games, but also in Sports Games, which I Player when I was Younger), but since a few weeks/months the above described szenario does no longer satisfy, cause I don't like races where I can't race the AI. So what I currently do are single races (I only do 2-3 practise laps) and then Start a race where I Start last. And I run basically every time a different Car. So I know my AI Level round about and Set it a little bit lower and then I try to Finish as best as possible.
    So how do you run against AI? Maybe someone has a completely different way to enjoy racing against the AI.

    Greets
     
  2. NL-Jos

    NL-Jos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Ratings:
    +182 / 0 / -0
    Very short answer, :(:confused::eek:
     
  3. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Ratings:
    +790 / 0 / -0
    Try deleting your Ai adaption file
    Couple of pointers
    Dont start from the back of the pack
    Qualify
    There will always slight fluctuations between tracks , as one of the base times is set by a human and a few other bits to round it up or down

    Always do a few runs on a track so you know where you sit ai % wise
    So if your running between 100 and 106 on a bunch of tracks let say 10 tracks , write it down , add it up , devide by ten , this gives you an average across the tracks
    Add 1
    Set the championship to that level , now some tracks you will be the same some slightly better some slightly worse ,
    Always do practice and a 10 minute minimumQ session and race
    Across the championship it should give you a more realistic result

    Andi
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    Thanks Andi,
    I did all that when I did the championships and I know my "round about AI" strength for about any Combo I ran and I know any track at raceroom. I need about 1-2 laps to be at 99% of my best lap.
    Anyway, that was not my point.
    Maybe in short. Running championships is not satisfying me. I just have about 30 minutes time maybe 2-3x per week and I want to do a race, meaning I want to have battles.
    My current setup of starting at the back and setting AI slightly too easy makes fun for now, as I can drive always different car or do multiclass etc..
    I just wanted to find out how others enjoy their offline racing against AI. I don't like hotlapping, leaderboard challenge, ghost racing, online racing etc.
    So just want to find out If there is something, that I'm not thinking of and others do and enjoy
     
  5. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +873 / 0 / -0
    I generally just pick a car track combo and do a 30 min race. I know that I'm usually about 104 on the AI so I set it at that,. sometimes I'm fast and end up battling at the front and sometimes I battle further down the pack. I dont use the AAI as I find it just doesn't work for me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Ratings:
    +395 / 0 / -0
    I usually do a practice session with ai on track first to get an idea of how me and the ai compare pace wise and to at least get my pressures and cambers in a reasonable window and to know how much fuel i use. Then i usually go for like a 15 minute race (depending on the class i might throw the odd 40 minute race in there as well) starting in the middle with the ai level adjusted so that i expect them to be around my pace or maybe a bit slower (at least those mid pack drivers). That way i can usually do a bit of overtaking and when i get punted theres a decent chance ill still be within fighting distance with the back of the pack. Championships are not for me. Ive never tried aai but afaik itll place you roughly in the middle and i wanna at least be in the top 10 to top 5 and fixed level is just too different from track to track to do a championship with more than a couple tracks. Overall i just much prefer racing online. I do have a nice ai race here and there but the majority of the time im annoyed by the fact that even when lap times match theres still a bunch of corners where im either way faster or way slower than the ai creating all sorts of trouble and just not being particularly enjoyable. But unfortunately its the only choice i have when wanting to race a decently sized grid on pretty much anything other than gt3 and rookie ranked servers (and even on those youre stuck with the same combo for 2 weeks at a time)
     
  7. Muzarati

    Muzarati Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2018
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    I still reckon the AAi is the way to go if...IF...they would just back the AI off a bit so you weren't dumped mid to back of the field! Adaptive AI should be just that, adapting to your pace, I still don't get why they can't see that?
    I use the AI primer and set the AI to my times, the downside is, each race you do the AI just keep getting faster, so I keep a master adaption file and then overwrite the adaption file with it each time pre-race.
    I Wish they would at least try it and see what everyone thinks? :(
     
  8. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    I Had that too with AAI. They were quite faster than me and in Adaption File the strength was even increased, which Made me thought "wtf".... But it does not happen anytime, so it is not logical.
    @Nico Kunze I do it currently about the Same just starting from the back. But yes it is true that all of the AI Cars have some Bad corners, where you can gain a Lot.
     
  9. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2021
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    I play in career mode. I know Raceroom doesn't have one, so I'm creating one for myself.

    I use a tool called Racing Career Manager and slowly drip content into it to first create an entire single seater ladder from F4 to Formula X, as it is called in Raceroom, and then build other classes around it, and maybe some entry level racing below it. I assign a basic set of rules, a cost and a fixed difficulty level to each championship and I've made racing seat "offers" appear randomly. There are also sponsorships that fund your next season based on your results in current one, so the goal is that eventually you'll plateau at some appropriate level and will need to simply learn to drive faster to progress.

    It's basically a game over a game that, by applying some predefined boundaries, frees me from the burden of thinking up my next challenge, as it presents itself naturally in the course of progressing through the season, with some randomness, as well as some player agency influencing it as well to make things more fluid. A clear goal to work towards also motivates to actually drive - you need to drive to progress and get where you want to get, presumably Formula X. It also takes the attention away from issues with AI, as the importance of a single race, or a single championship is lesser if they're just steps in a larger journey. It also allows me to play content I wouldn't otherwise; for example, if my best opportunity is to drive in Asian F3, I will visit a few tracks in Asia that I own, but would've had no reason to drive otherwise.

    So that's how I get my fun from racing against AI.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  10. morsify

    morsify Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    After reading your post I went on a search and found Racing Career Manager in Racedepartment, and started using it. It;s really good but I wouldn't have a clue how to add random 'racing seat offers' or sponsorship.
    Is this the tool you are using, and is there any chance you could share a link to your modifications to it?
    Anyway, I agree it adds a lot to the game, so thanks for mentioning it. I am currently starting in rental GX390 karts in AMS1, as I can't yet afford any R3E cars in my new career!
     
  11. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2021
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    Well, it's not really a "mod", it's just content files, and I just took some liberties and applied some house rules to get the result I was looking for, so in order to use my version, you'd have to do the same.

    For example, I don't have any cars buyable in the "New cars" tab, at least at the moment. All the racing seat offers and sponsorship offers appear in "Used cars" tab, because that's where purchaseable content appears randomly. And if you get a racing seat for one season, you're supposed to sell the "car" that represents the seat at the beginning of next season instead of using it indefinitely, like you normally would.

    I am probably going to share my version once I consider it sufficiently fleshed out and balanced, with proper description on what's the idea behind it and how to use it, but it still needs some work.
     
  12. morsify

    morsify Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    That sound great, I'll have to look into that myself. I'll definitely be interested if you get yours ready to share though,
    cheers.
     
  13. ShortyBuzzGER

    ShortyBuzzGER Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Ratings:
    +45 / 0 / -0
    If you are still using it I really would appreciate you sharing your changes.
    The tool looks very great, but has its flaws without editing (with random tracks X-17 ends up on Hockenheim Short for example, which is quite bizarre).
    Editing the csv files looks quite easy but is such a hassle afterall. The tool throws error after error when only adding one series schedule into allRaces.csv and editing the corresponding car to match the series(all.csv). Such a pain. And having no clue about Java and the error codes doesn't help either.
    The last update of the original tool is from 2021, so looks like abandonware (that's why I'm complaining here :D ).
    Any input from anyone would be nice.
     
  14. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2021
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    Here are my files. They're currently more or less feature-complete, but only contain single-seater ladder and may not be perfectly balanced.

    The changes are pretty extensively beyond the tool's original capabilities and would warrant a separate manual, but since I'm on Raceroom hiatus, I can't motivate myself to write it, so this quick summary has to suffice for time being:
    - you don't own cars, you get racing seat contracts in "Used Cars" menu (that way they appear randomly) and you're supposed to "sell" them at the end of the contract,
    - you need sponsorship to fund your career, you "buy" sponsorship contracts in "Used Cars" menu as well and are allowed to have three sponsorships for slot 1., 2. and 3., and you also "sell" those sponsors after they expire,
    - contracts can have extension conditions - if you meet them, you can keep the contract for next season, some extensions are one time, some can be met indefinitely year after year,
    - sponsorships payouts happen at the beginning of the new season based on your results in previous season - you register manually to sponsorship "championships" and "races" and input your best race finish and best championship standing from championships you participated in on tier corresponding with the sponsor's tier (from F3, F2... to A, S),
    - some sponsorships have modifiers, for example S=P/2 ("sponsorship equals position divided by two") means you need to divide your positions by 2 and round up, so for example if you finished 4th or 3rd, you input 2nd and get a better payout, (this had to be done because the tool has a bug and rewards only first six five places for final standings, and this is a way to be able to get some sponsorship money if you finish below that), while S=P+1 means you add one position and get a worse payout,
    - if you only participated in championships of higher tier, you get full sponsorship and input 1st and 1st in both results, regardless of the modifier,
    - if you only participated in championships of lower tier, you don't get anything from that sponsor,
    - once you sign a sponsor, you keep them until they expire, extensions are optional though,
    - every championship has a base difficulty assigned, that can be modified further by team we are contracted by - if you get a deal with a good team, you get a difficulty decrease; obviously the biggest team differences are in Formula X, while they are pretty subtle in feeder series,
    - there are license requirements and earning conditions included, but you need to track and check your license level on your own, since the program doesn't do that despite showing it as one of the features,
    - Formula X reserve is the only A tier championship, while Formula X is the only S tier championship, but if you get a Formula X reserve contract, you can treat any B-tier championship as if it was A-tier as far as sponsors are involved. This way you can fund your way into Formula X by either performing well in one of the B-tier championships, or by fulfilling the tasks from the reserve schedule that's generated for each season, driving on tracks where corresponding rounds take place. Possible tasks are: reserve duty (doesn't award points, you don't need to do anything), sim work (60 minute practice session with damage disabled, one AI on set difficulty modified by your team and one program that involves a number of laps on certain tyres, you get points for beating the AI's best time and for completing the program), Free Practice 1 session (60 minute practice against a full grid on championship's difficulty modified by your team, with points being awarded for completing the program and for not damaging the car), race (rare, you get to participate in full Formula X race weekend as a substitute for main driver), race x2 (same, but twice), race onwards (same, but for the rest of the season). Obviously, it's best not to look up the reserve driver schedule before taking the contract. Sponsorship input is 15 minus number of earned points (so if you earn 6 points from reserve driver tasks, your position for sponsorship payout is 9th). If you got to participate in Formula X race as a reserve driver, consider yourself participating in tier S championship and award sponsorships accordingly, simulate an entire season if it's necessary to determine your final standing.

    That's the short version. I think I got through all of it, but if something is not clear, do ask.

    There's a lot of data in the files already, the loading times can be pretty long and there's an odd error here and there, so it's a good practice to save often, especially before the generation of new offers, which happens every three months. But the files work and I've used and tested them many times. If you keep getting errors, consider reinstalling your Java Runtime Environment, the latest version. I also started having errors at some point and this fixed it.

    I'll probably get back to the files to develop them further at some point and add some more series and career paths, so feel free to leave some feedback, especially regarding the difficulty levels and randomness of offers.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
    • Wonderful Wonderful x 1
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  15. ShortyBuzzGER

    ShortyBuzzGER Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Ratings:
    +45 / 0 / -0
    Wow, i mean, this is quite astonishing. After 4 quick test runs nothing funky happend. It works fine :D And the loading times aren't to problematic. The longest at the start was about 20-30 seconds.
    So you basically built the files up from scratch, that makes it even greater. Then I must do something fundamentally wrong when after editing files I get errors :D

    A very interesting point are the sponsorships. That's a big plus in immersion. But I found out that when you have two of the same tier (let's say F-3-2 from different sponsors) and you subscribe to a "payout championship" (which you can only for one) when clicking on going to next week it indefinitly stays at that week and opens the payout menu for the first contract again until you delete the subscribtion. (Difficult to describe^^)
    Also going into the files, the "carprizes" for the sponsorships seem quite random. What I mean is, F-3 stage sponsors give you 14855, but the tool pays out from 10.000 downwards to 2.400 (depending on placement 1.-5.). I know there are random numbers of some span in the background but i don't understand your numbers (like 14855).
    You are on hiatus so don't bother looking into it, i will just change some values and look what happens^^

    I wanted to write some more but I am quite overwhelmed by how flawless your work is ^^. So I forgot the rest.

    Oh and at the end some questions about the abbreviations from championships:
    Example: [P45 Q30 40+25+1L RQ]. RQ possibly means reverse grid from qualy and R1 would mean grid of first race, while RR1 is reverse grid of race 1?

    Thanks for your input/insight and for sharing your files. I will definitly have my fun with them ;):D
     
  16. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2021
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    I couldn't replicate the error. For me it progressed normally. But you shouldn't take more than one sponsor for one slot anyway, because the entire financial balance is designed around having up to three sponsors, one for each slot.
    They're not random at all. I don't know why the parameter was called CarPrice, but it has nothing to do with prizes or prices. Instead, it determines the signup cost for the championship, through some equation. For sponsorships to have zero signup cost, I had to find the right CarPrice value by trial and error.

    The prizes are determined by the championship's tier and number of participants. Unfortunately, due to a bug I mentioned, only races issue prizes based on actual number of participants. Your final championship standing gives awards as if there were 8 participants, regardless of what you can read in championship info. But knowing that, you can change the number of participants to 8 in there and check the actual rewards you'll get.
    Yes, that's correct. And "+1L" means one extra lap enabled. Some championships have race length in minutes, like in above example, but some have laps, and then it's for example "60L".
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  17. P. Smorzalo

    P. Smorzalo New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Create a race against AI and enjoy it is really simple... do a practice and adjust the AI so that you are 1 second faster* (with half the tank of fuel) that the position you want to fight... this is because AI improves a lot in qualy and race

    *in tracks where the laptime is around 1min30... if lower, it should be lower also your gap and viceversa
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. vvPULSEvv

    vvPULSEvv Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2020
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    I get my kicks running Championships, AAI. I sometimes win a Champtionship, but it is rare (like 10-15% of the time). Most often, I'm battling mid-pack but occasionally battle for the win and also last place. Regardless, I'm battling for position somewhere. I love the fact that I don't know how I'm going to perform each week until I get through qualifying. For me, that aspect makes it more life-like and how I'd expect things to go if this were real. It's not enjoyable for me to have have the fastest car, capable of winning every race, so when a race weekend does come along in which I'm battling for podium, it's sooo enjoyable. The AAI is what keeps me glued to this sim.
     
    • Like Like x 1