Problem Ai feedback

Dont know if this can actually help in some way but it was too extreme to just ignore if i have this thread going anyways.

Was doing a 35 minute race against 35 ai (15 dtm 2020, 20 gt3) at 113 strength at motegi (road course). The corner where the merc spun still seems to be one where cars have a bit of trouble (mainly running wide though rather than spinning) but the main complaint is the way the following ai handle the situation/perhaps yellow flags in general. They start braking like 500m before the actual place of the incident, start driving over the grass, almost come to a stop only to then accelerate and then almost stop again, creating dangerous situations for everyone coming from behind and all that just because of a car thats almost fully off the track. (And then of course theres that audi just ramming the merc for a solid 90 seconds)
This incident created huge gaps all throughout the field, essentially turning close fights into hotlapping for a lot of the cars (although towards the end of the race the pack did magically get closer together again, dont quite know why that was the case either). I know this behaviour is harder to fix than a wrong braking point or whatever but this is a bit worse than what id consider something that i can live with as a compromise so i hope it can be looked at

 

Yes such incidents, especially when the spinner is still near the racing line, are odd. But I can imagine, that programming an AI, which can handle them better, is very difficult as so many things have to be taken care about. It is mich easier to program an AI that simply races. I think you know what I mean. Luckily such incidents do Not happen so often. But they reduce Immersion quite a lot.

 

Yeah i know what you mean and cases this extreme luckily dont happen too often as you say but the ai do still significantly overreact to the majority of yellow flags

 

Just so you know i do read these

Andi

 

I did a DTM 2021 race on the Norisring yesterday, and the AI gained time on me during the mandatory pit stop. I checked the replay and they braked way too late for the pit entry. They didn't get a penalty for speeding in the pits either. I guess that the pit AI line needs to be adjusted.

 

I find the AI are petty bad at that track, the first corner is mayhem and they keep turning too early hitting the barriers, they do get a bit better as the race goes on but the AI definitely need tweaking!

 

Back with more .
This time with a few observations, the first being the cupra e racer at macau. The ai overall just isnt fast enough lap time wise although the issue seems to mainly be the hairpin. In a 15-20 minute quali session with 10-15 cars even at 120 strength they didnt really go faster than lows 2:24s, which is a second slower than me on a good clean lap and if im not mistaken a couple seconds slower than the leaderboard p1. Now in the race exiting the long left hander before the hairpin i had to be 2.5 seconds or more behind the car in front if i didnt wanna risk running into their back end in the braking zone for the hairpin. I suspect they might be treating the constant no overtaking yellow flag as a normal yellow flag and get super cautious thinking theres a spun car somewhere. (Then on the exit theyre a lot quicker than me but that might just be because i shouldnt be running them at 120 strength normally).

Next up is the dtm 2020 at zolder. The ai use nowhere near enough kerb through the turn 5 and turn 7 chicanes. Through the first chicane its not too bad in free air, probably only costs like 2 tenths. In the second chicane however it causes more issues. They tend to brake fairly early there but often not in a straight line creating quite a risk for rear ending them. On top of that they enter the first right hander of turn 7 very slowly making accidents even more likely (unless you do whatd be sensible in real life and just cautiously stay behind them there but then theyre faster than me over the rest of the lap and i have no real chance of overtaking anyone. Id then have to turn down the ai strength but thatd mean theyre even slower through turn 7 creating more trouble..). Also when you go through that first right hander side by side (with the ai on the outside) theyll then drive into you through the left hander when theyre on the inside but refuse to take a normal line using the kerb.
And just in general theyre veery slow into turns 5, 7, 9 and 11 when in traffic.
And then there was the issue of some ai pitting in the last couple of laps of a 40 minute race (mandatory pitstop was on and everybody had done their mandatory stop meaning tire wear really shouldnt have been an issue). I did two 40 minute races and it happened in both of them (one time it was the top 2 pitting gifting me the win).
Aaand the pace in free air versus in traffic seemed to be incredibly different at times. In the second race newey had a fastest race lap that was 2.5-3 seconds faster than my best lap of the race, yet when he was fighting one other car i easily closed a 14 second gap in what felt like 6-8 laps.
That should be it for zolder . All observed in races against 15 ai somewhere around 116-118 strength.

Onto the dtm 2020 at the hockenheimring. At least as long as there are no huge gaps between cars the ai are a bit slow on race pace. Even at 120 strength i could more or less match most opponents pace. Then theres the issue of one car going ridiculously fast. I did two 40 minute races (one at 120 and one at 119 strength), the winner of the first race had a 50 second lead by the end and a best lap that was 2.5 seconds quicker than anyone else. In the second race id just caught up to the leader 3 laps into the race when he suddenly started going 4-5 seconds per lap faster than me. That only lasted for two laps tho, once he had to slow down for a yellow his pace was back to normal (i know this generally is a known phenomenon, just thought id mention it occured here as well). Turn 1 lap 1 also is a major problem, on average probably takes 4-5 attempts before no ai spin there. It seems they all try to take a very narrow line into t1 and eventually one will hit the orange sausage kerb and spin.
Also had another incident here where an ai car spent 90 seconds going back and forth trying to get around a spun ai car when there was plenty of space to get by either side (so something like that now happened twice in my last like 6 races)

Moving onto the topic of starts, the ai seem to be slow off the line in the cupra leon e racer. This video is at 111 strength but the start at macau at strength 120 wasnt much different tbh.

Dont know why theyre so slow, perhaps using too much traction control could be an issue? (for reference i used either 5% or 0% on this start and could basically just floor it without significant wheel spin).
Also regarding starts, if a car has launch control available do the ai also use it or do they still start "fully manually"? Because its happened a few times now in the 2020 dtms that my reaction time was quicker than that of the ai but despite me using launch control they got better acceleration than me (talking about the phase before any gearshifts so those shouldnt be the cause). Is there more to it or is it just another thing that just happens because theyre on different physics than the player?

That should finally be it for now

 

Went for another dtm 2020 race against 15 ai at 120 strength around hockenheim (gp layout of course) and this time turn 2 seemed to be an issue. They frequently were in a situation where they hesitantly think about going for a move up the inside, then decide against it but then they accelerate, hit the sausage kerb and spin

(Also somebody tell frijns about safe rejoins )

 

Was having a nice 10 lap race against 22 ai (all in the 650s gt3) at brno gp until this ai made a mistake and then completely went mad, punting me in the process.

I cut the video short but this went on for roughly 4 laps, all the way til the race finished

 

I rarely revisit the same combo for an ai race within a few months after my last go at it (especially if i remember perceiving it as a bit troublesome ) so i cant really comment on the improvements yet but if i do still notice anything on these combos after driving them again ill let you know.
I do appreciate you guys keeping trying to improve the ai based on these posts tho

 

My feeling is that AI cars are too slow in slow corners and too fast in fast corners right now.

 

I agree, but it is better since they made an update several months ago (or it is even more than a year ago).

 

Ive now actually revisited the dtm 2020 + gt3 at suzuka combo (me still in a dtm) and turns 3-5 and 8 definitely seem improved to me. Turns 11 and 16 at least in traffic are still definitely on the slow side, turns 6-7 still a bit fast. Ive now also found them to be a bit early on the brakes or a bit slow through turns 1 and 13. But overall definitely an improvement .
Overall pace and pace between classes could now be adjusted a bit tho. At 120 strength in a 60 minute race their best race laps were in the 49s and 50s when the leaderboard p1 is a mid 47 without drs and p2p. The gt3 ai however had mostly 56s and 57s, a good bit faster than the leaderboard p1 (which was probably even set by a quicker driver than the dtm leaderboard time). That led to the pace difference between classes being a lot smaller than one wouldve expected and at times made for some surprising moments while lapping (for example i once was entering turn 15 side by side with a gt3, me on the inside and travelling a bit faster as the corner was coming up. In the dtm its easily flat and in a gt3 ive never come close to it being flat, especially when not even getting to the apex, yet the gt3 was still next to me on exit).

On a side note, in said 60 minute race i had a mandatory pit stop enabled and just changed all 4 tires (so was done in like 6 seconds) as the fuel tanks big enough to do the whole race without refuelling. The ai however took veeeery long pitstops. Only checked for two of them but those two cars were stationary for 70 and 75 seconds respectively

 

Since I'm here, Bathurst AI maybe needs looking at, seem to have incredible grip across the top (corners 8,9 & 10) and be able to pass where no human can! Also, on trying to sneak through at the Esses & the dipper (12 & 13) one collected the outside wall, which IRL is always a car breaker, but just carried on at full pace? Do AI not suffer any damage?
...by the way...go SVG!

 

AI at Watkins Glen keep spinning in turn 1. Using GT3 at 103 AI fixed AI level.
When they attempt an overtake on the inside of turn 1 they spin.

 

Its pretty much the same with the FR3 car.

 

OMG! Just tried the 1992 DTM at Silverstone International. What a shitshow on the opening lap! Reminded me of bad rFactor1 AI....(edit) actually it doesn't matter what car/ series, they all seem to be the same?

 

not really a shit show ; but thanks for the contribution , if i may ask next time a better description and what ai % would help :
so something like this :
ai 104% ; silverstone int ; lap 1 exit of turn 3 ;
cars spin causing huge yellow flag moment

Andi

 

...was a little bit...ai 100% ; silverstone int ; lap 1 exit of turn 3 & 5 ;
cars spin causing huge yellow flag moment,,,sounds like your already aware of it?