This is my 2 cents on the question... prepare for a LoOong read When you lack the most important input from real racing "G-forces and maybe the danger of getting hurt" you have to make up for that in other ways like: More intense FFB, Immersion, Sense of speed, Fun factor, Photo realistic graphics... aso. Manufactures of sim-racing games all have a similar approaches on how they can achieve this and attract as many as possible in to a franchise that are really competitive with klients that are meticulous in how it "should feel" but never driven a real race car to begin with The hard core simracer that want everything to be as realistic as possible, have to understand the fundamentals of physics of how a race car behave, but even more on how the sense of balance is working inside you when NOT moving compared to when you ARE moving. It's a contradiction to make sim racing games realistic when we lack one of the most important inputs in sim racing = G-force/Balance. There is also the € £ $ factor. How much money are you willing to spend to get as close to 99% realistic (it can't be 100% it's a sim ) What people seem to forget is how important your own cockpit is to make it more realistic. Do you drive with a gamepad/keyboard or maybe with a steering wheel in front of a desktop and a office chair with a upright position on a single screen, or have you gone totally mental (like I have) and built a sim-rig with triple screens or a VR headset and paid an arm or a leg for: Steering wheel, Pedals, Button box, Race seat, Buttkicker or even a motion platform to mimic the movement of driving... not to forget the computer that have to handle all the input peripherals without going in to a meltdown or make the game stutter like it's a slide show. The mainstream sims like R3E, Iracing, AC, rF2, PC2, Automobilista to mention a few. All have one thing in common, to attract as many as possible on a slim budget and still make enough money so they can put food on the table for themself. If we all where millionaires we could all have the F1 teams simracing installations and not worry about if they were realistic or not. In the end... do you have fun driving the sim/game or is it boring because it doesn't "feel realistic" or is it to hard to learn because everyone else are so much faster Either way - Welcome to the wonderful world of simracing - This is the "short" answer on a difficult question but I hope the point I want to make gets through
Are any racing games physics realistic? I havnt found a game since the GP1\2\3\4 series that had me so engrossed, it\they were, in their day, the bollox, i loved everything about it them and nothing for me has come close but they are distant memories and times and games move on. How many games have pro drivers endorsing them, you can look at the current crop of games and find a supposed pro name, you can go back 5\10\15\20 yrs and find different games where pro drivers have played or publicly commented or endorsed a title saying how real it feels or how close to the real thing they find it, yet everyone that plays a hates b, and everyone that plays c hates a and b and on and on, its way too subjective without ever actually driving a gt3 or wtcc car or whatever your prefered car of choice is, back to the GP4 point, how do you enjoy it, does your Calvin Klein smell less nice cause im selling it you on tv rather than Heidi Klum or David Beckham, are your football boots less skillfull cause its a Sunday League advert and not Lionel Messi selling them you, pro drivers telling me how "REAL" a game is aint worth shit, paid sponsors in the loosest term, how much enjoyment and fun i can take out of the game while thinking maybe this is how it would feel, damn this makes me think im in a......that under\oversteer moment just then i almost shit myself and the way the wheel\seat\display fed it back to me.............................it goes on and on! The pro drivers no matter the game, fanboys are convinced abc or d said its real so it must be, forgetting that typically they are just a paid shill, i mean come on, every game (that calls itself a sim) on the market today is perfect and realistic if you believe the pros, It all depends on what game you play and how used to it you are or the time you have invested, cause what you perceive as perfect in one is absolute crap in another. None of us, or very very few have any experience of the real race cars that we are trying to represent in game yet are quite happy to sit in judgement of the game of choice, forgetting the important factors to a car racing game. How the car feels in game is affected by so many different variables are Raceroom physics better on my system than yours, does you faster cpu mean the ai have it easier on your system than mine meaning you have more processing power left over for the physics? Is my older gpu influencing physics? I only have 4 gb of ram will that make a difference, does my g25 compare to a fana v2 the variables are endless, unless you get a million race educated folks sitting at a million identical computers playing every single sim out there.........................bollox, it goes on and on. Are Raceroom physics realistic, more importantly, how much do you enjoy Raceroom? #Kindofofftopicbutbangonthemoney! EDIT - Waffle on n chat shit, late night alcohol - need a lock on my keyboard when im drinking.
To me, all the modern racing games that even attempt to be simulations (e.g., no need for speed) have the basics down, and we see people learning how to race a car with them, all the way down to the console games like GT and Forza that simholes shit on. It's all good, it's still driving and the same principles apply. Sime things are better simulated in this or that title. We all know this and find our preferences. Bottom line, R3E physics FEEL good to me....IMMERSIVE...I feel like I'm connected with the car...that's why I like it, critics be darned.
First of all I have to say that is very painful for me to write a long post, english not my native language. What is realistic physics? For me and I believe that is objective too, is when someone, (a pro racing driver or anyone who drives his car fast every day) drives in the simulator in the same way, (with the right setup of course) and be in the top of the leaderboard. Some time ago, there was a leaderboard challenge: beat Bruno Spengler's time. You know, I had to sweat a lot and spend many days to find the right setup to beat his time. If all those guys had the time to find the right setup, they would be at the top of every leaderboard. In the DTM competition at Hockenheim, the Mercedes drivers they were going here, going there, I don't know how little they practiced, but they were very very good, and we had practiced a whole week. (My excuse is that I had different wheel and pedals.) The basic way to drive a car fast doesn't change if it's a road car or an f1. That is realistic physics for me. We don't talking about them, we are talking about Lewis and Valtteri saying at Sepang that FR X-17 was the most realistic virtual interpretation they had experienced. And they are paid from another company. I could wright a lot more, but as I said at the begining... PS: On the other hand not everything is perfect. Correct me if I'm wrong but to drive fast the WTCC cars you have to press gas and brake in the same time at the corners.That's very exaggerated and wrong.
absolutely not, even experiencing a slight physics leak, gt3 in this can is about to feel so much more alive, compared to the dead floatyness they are now
well some cars are more realistic than others some are pretty trash teir with physics.... the v8 ear DTM would be one of those, theyre still on an ancient Rfactor based physics set its very primitive very basic, floaty, un detailed, no nuance. but physics dev is working to big all cars up to a modern standard like all the other dtm stuff. but itll take time
The main issue I have with this is how easy it is to roll in stupid places. To me, it makes it feel like the car has weirdly unbalanced weight you can't predict outside of "hit this kerb, roll because I've done it before." Cars like the Mazda MX-5 and BMW M235i roll fairly easily on even the lowest kerbs at Sonoma. The first right after the Carousel on the WTCC layout is an example of where it feels like it makes no sense and I have no confidence in attacking that kerb. Even at the fast left-right before the tight chicane, it's possible to roll despite that being a fairly low kerb. Other than that, I enjoy driving the car. I've never been a fan of "clicks" as a setup adjustment because I feel like it creates ambiguity around what a click is. I'd prefer to have the raw numbers so I can make sense of them. PCARS2, at times, felt like I needed a PHD in Vehicle Dynamics but I enjoyed it. Though part of the reason is the default isn't as good as RaceRoom.
I think RaceRoom has good enough physics. I came few years ago from rf2 and RR physics and FFB seemed simplistic. Especially tire feel. In rf2 the best was feeling of losing and regaining grip. It felt progressive an natural, not on/off like in iRacing. Now with 100% physics based FFB it’s much better, but I still think tire feel is better in rf2 and ACC.
yep, feels very coherent.. just tires feels a bit too slippery, or like are not soft rubbery rather hard plastic rubber. But is an issue found also in other sim titles
mm... just did 1.50.088 competition GTR 4 @ Hockenheimring. i correct previous statement, ain't hard plastic rubber.. is more realistic than i remembered. Still the car slips a lot around and i dont understand why, way much than everyday cars... maybe are racing car (never driven one) like so at this point. Hope one day one can choose tires compounds (soft-mid-hard).. in game option are there but often can't be changed.
You're not comparing alike driving styles though. Unless you drive your own car on the public roads at 10/10ths, flat out like every second matters then how can it possibly be a fair comparison?
Exactly. Is the difference between normal user expectations about the race car physic feeling should be.. and how the actual physic of a race car is. I trust a lot real race car drivers impressions and i have no doubt in the precision brought by devs. So i trust that as is, to be more likely as real is. Having no experience in racing cars, i never intended to compare. For who have never tried, the experience worth for sure. The speed sensation, and tricky engaging and funny handling is all there, vivid.
Real racing drivers have very inconsistent opinions about simulated cars. For example Porsche 911 GT3 Cup car in iRacing was praised by one driver who raced it - Elliott Skeer, but at the same time was criticized by others that also raced it IRL(including Nicki Thiim saying it’s tires feel like wets on dry tarmac). There’s pretty much a consensus that iRacing tires often have too sudden grip falloff (once you start a slide there’s often nothing you can do). IMO That doesn’t apply to all cars. For example in Mazda MX-5 or certainly in Skippy you can slide the car and recover from a slide. But IRL GT3 drivers seem pretty consistent that ACC has the most realistic GT3 handling. I used to think rf2 has the best tire model, and really liked the way you loose grip and then able to regain it , but then I heard and read many times that e.g. GT cars in rf2 allow you to slide too much and allow to recover from them(when you no longer should be able to). So it’s also wrong, but in the opposite of the iRacing’s tendency ( on the other end of the spectrum). I didn’t heard many real life racing drivers’ opinions about Raceroom handling, but it’s certainly not arcade. Edit: typos etc.
Most of them are not paid. You think that ACC (Kunos) pays the most and that’s why they say its GT3 cars have best handling? Besides the ones I mentioned were not paid(at least when they told their opinions, now IDK).
DTM'16 has a way better feeling in tires sliding. I found my self in trying and re-trying to improve lap time with more pleasure at Brands Hatch for the competition, having a car that slides but that slides in a more controllable manner.