December 10th 2024 ai thread

Here is another issue I caught with Salzburgring T1-2. Unlike the player, the AIs are so glued on to the track even when they ride over the kerb: It can be simply explained like, as if their cars never feel any bouncing from riding the kerb. But everytime I take the complex, my car always either bounces or flies off!

 

I drove the VW Scirocco gr2 car at the Nürburgring (Grand Prix track) with 24 opponents and on the first right turn most of the cars spun out and collided in front of me (i started last)

This happens every time in this track, first corner

Also same happens in every lap on the same turn (at least one car spins with yellow flag)

Single race, 5 laps, Ai in both adaptive and 94 % with same results

 

New classes with same prob (in same track) : DTM 1992, and TOURING CLASSICS (i am under the impression that all cars/classes with manual gear box should be checked though)

 

Hello,
I have some things for Group 5 on Nordschleife (24h layout):

Adaptive AI, lap times can be seen in the screenshot above and in every video below.
I was starting from the back with 5 cars behind me or something like that.
1) Wide lines from the back pack in lap 1 turn1 (No crashes! Very good job there!)

2) Too much braking at Wippermann
This is one of the problems that occured with many other classes as well.

3) Bad Rejoin after a crash at Tiergarten
Bad rejoins are also a common problem, you can also see them in the video about Super Tourers in the third chicane at Hockenheim Classic.

4) Braking on the corner exit

5) Strange line and slow AI at Ex-Mühle

6) Strange lines in the Veedol-Chicane

7) Braking on the straight

8) Unnecessary braking or too much braking at Fuchsröhre, very tight line at Adenauer Forst -> slow
This is one of the problems that occured with many other classes as well.

 

AI prone to crashes
WTCR (Mixed through all years) at Spa - Bus stop chicane
Adaptive AI - 50 cars from
I was starting from the P30 or something like that, 'm not sure.

The AI keeps crashing at the bus stop chicane, which always causes a big pile up and traffic jam.

 

I want to report two general problems, explained with some clips from a Supertouring race at Hockenheim Classic.

1) The AI often doesn't care if you're there. When attacking them (or defending, also possible), it seems as if they think that they don't have to give you room once they are in front.
In the first scene of the video below, the Volvo just accelerates through my Alfa. In real life, that would be 'causing a collision' or in some cases 'forcing another car off the track'.
As in the second scene, it often happens to me that AI keeps driving the ideal line even though my headlights are on the same level as their steering wheel. This probably wouldn't be that annoying if the damage physics worked properly in every case.
I'm very sure that my Audi shouldn't be spinning out.

2) The AI is unrealistically confident in holding on around the outside. this can be seen in the third scene of the video. Surely, it's absolutely possible to make those moves (we see it working sometimes in reality too), but it seems as if AI always knows to 100% that they can defend around the outside. To make the AI experience better, it would be great if they sometimes tried to hang on to the place and sometimes just give it up, as most (or at least many) drivers in the real world (or at least us noobs in simracing ) do.

Note: the scenes are from the same races as in the next post about the third chicane. (Edit: It's coming tomorrow, I reached the maximum daily uploads on YouTube )

 

your videos need the permissions resetting

Andi

 

Thank you once again, fixed it once again. I might learn it at some point in time...

 

So, here it is...
Super Touring at Hockenheim Classic
24 Adaptive AI plus me (lap times in the screenshot in the video)
Starting position P16 or so.
It' very clear from the video what happens, you wouldn't believe it without a proof anyway.

 

Hello,
awkward AI behaviour spotted on the start at Pau-Ville: the left side suddenly moves to the right for no reason.
Complete grid of WTCC 2013 (22 AI plus me)
I'm starting from the back after no time set in qualifying.
Adaptive AI
Fastest lap time of the winner in the first race (Seat) 1:20.7, in the second race (BMW) 1:22.1 or so.
Sorry for the video, I wanted to record it immediately and was still in VR...

 

Hello,
I recently did two races in the DTM 1995 Alfa and noticed that AI standing starts were pretty bad. In both races, I didn't set a lap in qualifying and was starting at the back. My impression was, that the whole field was starting pretty much in the same speed, but I was way faster. It's not an Alfa advantage as well, I checked that. (19 Adaptive AI, Alemannenring: 1:17.XXX, Silverstone: 1:50.XXX - my pace was good enough for the mid-field)
Silverstone Classic:

Alemannenring:

Apart from this, the AI feels very nice, especially on Silverstone. Good job, keep it up!

 

Here's another example of AI not respecting the player's car's existence.
19 Adaptive AI, Alemannenring: 1:17.XXX, starting position 20

 

It's not directly 'AI prone to crashes', but this clip shows two general problems:
1) Weird behaviour of cars going over curbs, especially the new ones on Avus, Diepholz, Alemannenring. When hitting the curb straight, the car launches to Mars. When hitting the curb with two wheels, the car is in danger to roll over. (My favourite solution for the Alemannenring would be to include the 1993 version, which had a faster chicane with lower curbs)
2) AI is heavily struggling to pass a crashed car safely in a straight line. In the video (me idiot cut it away), the last white Calibra would have hit the Mercedes if the latter wasn't put into the pits in that moment.
19 Adaptive AI, Alemannenring: 1:17.XXX, starting position 20

Positive ending to the post: This was the only crash in a ten minute race - not that bad for a tricky course like this.

 

General problem: AI leaves too big gaps in hairpins
The video shows it at Alemannenring, but you can see that in many hairpins (Avus, Pau, maybe Macau) the AI leaves huge gaps. There's also a white flag in this corner every time, I think there might be a coincidence with the gaps. AI is braking very early to maintain the gaps, which are large enough to pass them and fit your car inbetween.
19 Adaptive AI, Alemannenring: 1:17.XXX, starting position 20

 

Is it still a built in feature that the ai are supposed to occasionally make mistakes such as spinning etc? If so id prefer it if that could be removed. As is it seems almost impossible to run a race without there being yellow flags at some point and unfortunately each yellow flag is potentially race breaking. Either the ai completely overreact to the yellow flag causing a traffic jam or if youre lucky theyll only slightly overreact but that still creates gaps everywhere in the field. Those gaps in turn will oftentimes cause the ai to start running lap times that are completely inappropriate for the chosen ai strength (or they were way too slow in traffic before, the result is the same) killing immersion and any chance to keep up

 

I put an 'Agree' on your comment as I mostly agree.

I've had some situations where it was really nice and exciting to watch them spin out, but to be fair, that was generally directly in front of me, so I didn't have the effect of the yellow flags. So I really like the idea and the feature, there's jsut some more work to do.

I'd like to add that the yellow flag is sometimes shown way too late to the player. In some cases, cars in front of me slammed into the brakes suddenly and I crashed into them without any chance to react, just because they already reacted to the yellow flag and I didn't even know something was wrong. Fixing that might defuse many situations early.

 

Hello,
classic RaceRoom hairpin drama at Avus (1998) spotted.
Super Touring
19 Adaptive AI (Screenshot of results in the video)
Starting position 20 after qualifying.
Crashes in lap one and some very motivated moves combined with strange lines of the AI lead to uncool situations in the hairpin multiple times in a race.

 

Super Touring at Avus 1998
19 Adaptive AI (Screenshot of the results in the video)
Starting position 20 after qualifying
The Honda thought it could be a good idea to fight back against me by taking the complete curb in the chicane, which lead to spectacular scenes.


Some words in general: on some occasions, the AI seems to have problems with handling situations that put them in a strange spot on track. I think you can see it in the hairpin scene as well, where the Volvo is too wide and suddenly accelerates straight into the barrier. I will attach another clip below that shows something similar at Nürburgring 24h turn 1 with Group 4 cars. AI changes its steering angle drastically in some cases and it almost looks like it forgets where the track is going, as one Porsche turns around to become a ghost driver.

Here's the Group 4 Clip (Adaptive AI, but not sure about the number and no idea about lap times. Starting position way back.)

 

Two more cases of 'AI not really respecting the player's car':
Super Touring at Norisring
19 Adaptive AI (sadly no info about lap times)
1) Audi: left me no space and pushed me over track limits on the inside of the corner (impressive that this is even possible )

2) Volvo: I ran a bit wide, but chose a normal line to come back, while the Volvo had a very strange line through my car and with potential to let him end up in the barrier as well.

I also want to state that the black-white Volvo from Brock and Scott seems to be a very rough driving opponent in general. It had many motivated moves and caused contact more often than the others. Is this intended? (Maybe the drivers were Verstappenish in real life as well, then it would be impressive to have that implemented in the sim. )

As I want to conclude my wave of posts about problems of the AI with some positives from now on, I want to say: The AI was really nice on Norisring. They were fighting each other a bit as well and the door-to-door racing that Supertourers should offer was very good, with side-by-side situations in the Schöller-S more than once during the race. *thumbs up*

 

Apart from the last lap, everything in the video is way better than the real life races were^^ Whith such a hairpin a traffic jam is expected (and ai did actually pretty well as i said compared to real drivers back in the day). Especially at 1:26, that is a pretty solid overtake for avus and super touring cars just my 2 cents here