Formula Raceroom US @ Mid Ohio - SLOWED DOWN Setup

Still feel like the formula raceroom US overall has too much downforce/grip (for a 2016 indycar) so ive once again tried to lower cornering speeds/introduce more understeer while hoping to make the rear a little more lively on throttle. Ive posted something similar here https://forum.kw-studios.com/index....-full-slower-than-standard.17661/#post-229999 4 years ago but that setup is obviously outdated by now and i wanted to give this another go (and maybe get a response from alex later on ). Generally im reasonably happy with the result for a rather narrow and twisty track like mid ohio (indy road course also works quite nicely (with adjusted gears and pressures)), not so much for bigger tracks like road america or watkins glen but i dont think theres much more i could try. Obviously wouldnt recommend using this in a multiplayer race or on leaderboards/competitions (also because i use very high rear pressures to try and get some more on throttle oversteer which wouldnt work on leaderboards). Ill attach a video of 2 onboard laps, the first one with this setup, the second one with a more normal setup (that hasnt seen much work go into it tho, there may well be more in there). Corner speeds are definitely lower overall (can be seen on the dashboard if interested), the two fast left handers are no longer flat, braking distances are increased and i have to be a bit more careful on throttle application. Overall im about 1 second slower than on the other setup. If anyone tries the setup let me know what you think

 

And then @Alex Hodgkinson, if you happen to find some time at some point id be curious on your input on this car and its characteristics. Probably best to read the post above first and then continue here where ill go into more detail. Theres a little preface and then ill talk about 3 tracks as examples, if you dont wanna read through all of that then just scroll down to the watkins glen paragraph for the best example

Now first off let me say that this car in theory has the potential to be one of my absolute favorites in raceroom. 2015-2017 visually is my favorite indycar era of all time and i feel like this cars sound might also be one of the best in game (which is quite high praise when raceroom is already considered rather good in the sound department ). So this criticism comes from a place of wanting this car to fulfill its potential rather than just wanting to bash it. However in its current form (or really for as long as i can remember) i am not able to fully enjoy the car because some of its characteristics just dont feel believable to me and/or just differ too much from what real life onboards (and times) show. Of course with this car we can quickly end the discussion by saying its not supposed to replicate an indycar but looks, sound, liveries, tire brand, store data, p2p system etc all suggest otherwise

Lets start with mid ohio. This is the real life pole lap from 2015, so soft tires, low fuel and for a track like this id guess a setup thats more on the high downforce side. Compare that to my video from the first post. With the normal setup on hard tires and medium fuel i can take the two fast left handers full throttle, turn 1 even very comfortably so. Braking points are also later on my lap than on the pole lap. When comparing to my lap with the slow setup braking points as well as the two fast corners seem closer matched although even then on hard tires and medium fuel i can probably take turn 1 with a smaller lift than the pole lap if i really nail it. But as mentioned in the opening post for this tight and twisty circuit im fairly happy with my setup (although of course nobody would run a setup like that in real life).

Now moving onto road america the difference becomes much bigger already. The 2016 pole lap time was a 1:42.2. Even with my slow setup on hard tires and plenty of fuel i can beat that by around 1 second. The difference in high speed corners already becomes pretty obvious. When running a setup that has minimum wing, negative rake and 0 front camber i would not expect to be quicker than real life through fast corners yet i am. When running a more normal setup the corner speed difference and the time gap grow further while also allowing pretty aggressive throttle application at medium speed. Compare this real life video for example with a lap of mine on hards with quite some fuel on board Now in the real life video kanaan isnt doing quali runs but it has the speed visible and it doesnt seem like hes going super slow or anything so i chose that one. You can compare corner speeds with my lap (both in mph for convenience sake) for all corners but ill explicitly mention turn 1. Kanaans minimum speed on both his laps was 111mph there, mine was 149mph. Thats a 60kph difference.. (for some added perspective, in raceroom the minimum speed difference at turn 1 between a gt4 and the mazda dpi (so a minimal aero 1500kg car vs a high downforce 900kg prototype) is more like 40kph). Alternatively look at 6:07:10 here https://www.youtube.com/live/Mu_tj24JImo?si=rGKFabaSnclr95Ba for a quali lap from 2016. From the 400 board before turn 1 until the end of the exit kerb of turn 2 i gain around 1.1s when on a quali lap (so low fuel and softs) on the normal setup. Or yet another way to look at it: on a quali lap i gain 3 seconds compared to the pole lap. With maybe 8 real corners on the track and me maybe losing a little bit down the straights that means on average i gain 4 tenths in every single corner..

And then theres watkins glen. Lap times might be slightly less extreme than at road america but i feel like the difference in driving characteristics is even more visible here. The lap starting at 1:29 here is around a 1:23.6 which on hards is basically a qualy lap. Compare that to a lap of mine with hards and a fair bit of fuel with the more normal setup On my lap the inner loop chicane, the long right hander afterwards as well as the final corner are all flat. In real life none of those corners are close to flat. Furthermore see how in the medium speed corners (particularly turn 1 and the two long corners in the middle of the lap) i can basically treat the throttle like an on/off switch without really needing to worry about over or understeering. In the real life lap it sounds like throttle application needs to be much more progressive.

So i hope at this point its clear why i feel the car has too much downforce and/or general grip. I guess having to create this car without manufacturer supplied data means more guesswork was involved but even then id hope for a closer end result. Maybe itd still be possible to apply some tweaks in the (not too distant) future?

Edit:
Ill add the indianapolis road course as a 4th example. Real life pole lap was a 1:08.6 and can be seen here
A 1:06.6 quali lap of mine with a custom setup (this one has seen some more work go into it) can be seen here Thats a 2 second difference on a pretty short lap with mostly slow speed corners with a bit of medium speed mixed in (so if too much downforce is the only discrepancy id expect this to be a track where the difference to real life is relatively small). Im a little slower on the straights but a lot quicker in the corners (braking for t1 until the second apex of the fast chicane before the backstraight around 1 second faster, braking after the backstraight until the apex of the fourth corner afterwards around 0.7s faster). And this doesnt just go for quali laps either. In the real life race the fastest laps were in the low 10s (maybe a couple drivers just dipping into the high 09s), average pace then maybe more like mid 10s but i have no data on that. Did a full 23 lap stint on my custom setup with a full tank of fuel and hard tires to compare. Started at mid 08s which quickly became low 08s and eventually high 07s for a while, generally continually getting faster as fuel weight seems to cost more than tire deg. So on average id say close to 2.5s per lap faster than real life. On the soft tire that wouldve been another 0.5s or so at the start of the stint, dont know how much deg would affect things there later on tho. (And even on my slowed down setup with a full tank and on hards i was immediately in the high 09s and by the end in the low 09s so around a second per lap faster. Corner speeds are noticeably closer to real life tho)

And another quali time example, this time also comparing the gaps to real life f1. At cota the 2019 indycar pole was around 10 seconds slower than the 2013 f1 pole. In raceroom at nürburgring gp i can get to around 3 seconds off of f1 2013 pole with the formula raceroom us rather than those 10 seconds. Now cota is a little longer than the nürburgring so lets say 0.5s of the extra expected gap is down to track length and 2019 indycars were slightly slower than those from 2016 so lets say another 1.5s there. That combined would have me expecting to be roughly 8 seconds off f1 2013 pole at the nürburgring, nearly 3 times as much as i actually am.

 

Since its been a while, @Alex Hodgkinson no time yet or no particular interest in getting into this?

 

No interest, because he's working on a new Indycar that will replace the old one and is free for everyone owning the old model, am I correct Alex?

 

Ah, thatll be it
Although even in that case id rather he forget about the new one and adjust the old one

 

Is it because of the windshields?

 

They dont necessarily make the cars more attractive but first and foremost i just really liked the aero kit era. Even 2018 doesnt come close to 2016/17 for me

 

Ok, that's too much expertise for me. I think the RaceRoom Formula US was one of my first contacts with Indycar.

 

Im not exactly an expert on indycar history either but from 2015 to 2017 manufacturers (so chevy and honda) were allowed to develop their own aero package. Visually that meant more aero bits and gimmicks than before or after. Generally they werent received very well by fans but i loved them and without them probably wouldve never watched any indycar . Since 2018 everybody runs a (much simpler) spec aero package which to my eye hasnt changed much other than the aero screen of course.

Ill attach a couple pics. First one shows the 2014 car. I had kinda wanted to start watching indycar a couple times during that sorta era but always felt the cars to be looking weird, kind of more like a toy car or a junior series rather than a top of the line single seater. 2nd pic is from 2017 and 3rd is from 2018. Clearly in 2017 theres a lot more going on in the rear wing area, behind the drivers head, in the sidebox area and so on than in 2018 and i much prefer the 2017 look.

Also feel like oval racing was more fun during the aero kit years but that could also be placebo/nostalgia. But fontana 2015 was the first time an oval race truly had me excited (might be time for a rewatch some time )

 

Those who work well may be assigned lots of things to do.

Maybe it's the learnings from LMP2/LMP3 physics that can help to improve behaviour of other (old or new) cars with high downforce?