Old's Cool -SimBin Mega Bundle on Steam - $8

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ozcanuck55, May 4, 2015.

  1. ozcanuck55

    ozcanuck55 Well-Known Member

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    Old School fun...the lot $8...get on it.
     
  2. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    That is very old stuff - and it shows it and you feel it. No way that I could get used again to the now outdated way of feeling in GTR2 again now that I use AC and R3E. It just is too much behind in looks and feel. Triple those 8 bucks, and during Steam sales you could get AC in the past, or get several R3E tracks and cars. Much more longevity and satisfaction.

    GTR, my God, is that over ten years now? these games were good for the standards of their time. Nowadays they cannot hold their ground anymore. Simulation quality has moved on.
     
  3. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with your sentiments Skybird. While old, all of those games are pretty much classics. GTR/2, GT Legends, and the entire Race/07 series are all quite well received in their day, and even now hold their own against pretty much everything on the market.

    Sure graphics have moved on, but as sim racers, driving is about more than just some shiny visuals to behold. The whole experience of the way the cars handle, the cars available, using them on correct tracks for the series and time period... It all comes together brilliantly. I dont disagree that graphics and physics have progressed since then. However, recently I have been playing the Race 07 series again just for old times sake. And I must say, there is a definite contrast to how modern sims behave, but also mild enough that it doesnt feel like a different experience entirely. Getting back into it has been a blast and the driving has been nothing but fun.

    I can prefer certain aspects of Race 07 more than aspects in R3E, much like I prefer things about R3E that other sims dont offer.

    I would definitely say with conviction though, that for anyone new to sim-racing, and even veterans that didnt experience the series in its hay-day, that the Race 07 series would be my top recommendation to anyone. Out of any sim available. The content available is only surpassed by modded rFactor, and the physics hold up quite well. It's challenging, although a bit forgiving most of the time. It's easily the best value as a whole package, and on sale, it's a no brainer. Especially for being a "finished" game with lots of features that most modern sims lack in one way or another.

    That said, I certainly do enjoy R3E perhaps a bit more, if for nothing more than it's far better sound, much better FFB, and updated tracks that look quite good. Nothing wrong with having more than one sim you play though. I know I can find something appealing in just about every sim I play.
     
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  4. matteman

    matteman Well-Known Member

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    I recently purchased the Race 07 bundle for about $15 AUS. I thought it would be interesting to see how the game performed as since Race 07 first release i have upgraded everything from my PC to my gloves.
    I had not played Race 07 / GTR Evo for at least 5 years and as Nate said it was a blast to drive, i loved the extra features, it ran as smooth as silk, and finished product thingy. However...................................
    Skybird is right you certainly do not get the visual, sound, FFB and motion feeling of a modern day Sim such as RRE.
    Anyhow to cut a long story short, I am glad Race 07 is in my library as with a few others, but RRE is still my go to Sim by far. ;)
     
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  5. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I still play Race 07 at least 3-4 times per week. Just started a BTCC 2015 Season, a DTM 2015 Season (since I can do a 2 race format), and a STCC Season as well. I also still play Power and Glory at least 3-4 times a month as well.
     
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  6. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    nate,

    visuals is not my primary concern, but the feeling of driving, the physical behavior. After I met AC's tech demo two years ago, I drove almost nothing else anymore (except OMSI, believe it or not), and since AC got into EA, there was no return to GTR2, race 07 or even GSCR anymore which I kept due to a Nordschleife mod that AC did not have for several months.. Development has simply moved beyond these oldies - and back then I played GTR2 a lot, really. Now, I cannot get used to these inferior experiences anymore. They also do not compare to R3E, which may not be as subtle and complex in physics as AC, but nevertheless delivers a very superior physics performance, imo, and a far more believable illusion to drive something that has real mass and follows the laws of physics.

    The inferior looks of these old sims only is an additional argument to me.

    So, quality over quantity for me. Those old games cannot mean much anymore to me, even if I get 8 titles for 8 bucks or so. I rather pay 20 bucks or more for one superior title. And classics they are, you say. Well, that can only have a meaning for collectors who ake their pleasure more from owning than using. Valid interest, I do not start an argument on that. But for players, the argument of somethi89gn being a classic, is rather pointless, I think. Pac Man is a classic, too. But I do not own it. ;)

    If money is still an issue for somebody, I would recommend to be choosy in what tracks and cars to buy in R3E, or wait for a Steam sale of AC. Quality beats quantity. And in AC at least, you have many tracks of the rF1 and GTR2 era being converted without visual improvement to AC. Their reception is split, to put it this way. Physics are one thing, but looks count for many people, too: and these old tracks simply cannot compete with looks anymore.

    I would mention at this opportunity that the lacking moddability of R3E is probably the greatest and most dangerous archilles heel of R3E, beside the high price. I am not into modding, but I know that many younger people see moddability as imperative.
     
  7. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I have AC and agree on the physics and feel but being primarily a non online player, the AI Experience in AC is terrible and needs much more work before it replaces the older sims for me. I much prefer the AI in GTR2/Race 07/GSCE over that of AC and even R3E.
     
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  8. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    On this I would agree. I am mainly SP as well, and the AI in AC currently is terrible. GTR2 and later GSC serve as my references for good AI. The AI of AC is what mad eme also look beyond AC, and finding R3E. Sound and AI is where R3E currently is very much superior over AC.

    However, I like both sims extremely well and use both, R3E for dogfighting and AC for driving and hotlapping. Both sims are extremely good already, though non already is a fully polished, round package. I prefer both over rF2 and iR any time. I temporarily planned to check out PC as well, but how many sims can I frequently and regularly use at the same time anyway? So I will fold over PC now, and stick with R3E and AC. All my most favourite tracks are there, and some even are present in or are announced for both titles.

    Picked up the rumour over the weekend that a new AI build for AC is done, it should be able to overtake now. That alone would be an improvement already, but there is more needed than just this to make it a competitor for other sim's AI. Many car classes and types in R3E do really well already, delivering human errors and nice dogfights amongst themselves. With other cars, usually those that are faster and more instabile, it tends to struggle. But it is the same by tendency in other sims as well. One needs to know which cars the AI can handle better than others. Most GT2- and -3 as well as touring cars do fine, usually.
     
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  9. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    Good points Skybird and I agree completely. As badly as I want good AI in AC, theres not much more fun than running hot laps around the Nordschleife on Assetto Corsa. That has to be my favorite track of all time. I do have PC preordered but I waiver each day on it simply because I haven't been "wowed" by anything I've seen on it. The DTM experience did it for me with this game, Nordschleife did it for me for Assetto Corsa, and the sheer volume of tracks and cars did it for me for Race 07,GTR and GSCE. Heck I still play Nascar Racing 2003 a couple of times a week for the Truck Series (don't like NASCAR but love their truck series). To me the AI in NR2003 is easily one of the best experiences ever and it's amazing to me that for a 13 year old game, no one has done that experience anywhere close
     
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  10. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Nascar 2003 - close formation flying under bridges in huge crowds :D , adrenaline spilling out of my veins, sweat glues my hands to the wheel and the heartmuscle pumps in my chest - the drama! The duels...! The battles...!!! THE CRASHES!!! The AI was rubberband-type, but heck, it got the job done, no matter the tricks to bring it to life. Not before AC appeared I started to abandon Nascar 2003 (and Richard Burns Rally).
     
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  11. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I guess I really need to pick up RBR. I haven't done that yet.
     
  12. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm on my fourth STCC run this year.
    Race 07 still Rocks!!
    I easily choose both Race 07 and GSCE before AC!! (I'm not a hot lapper.. .)

    Things thats needs to be implemented in R3E before I can put Race 07 on the shelf for good: :)
    False starts
    Dirt build up and tear on the windshield (with working wipers)
    In depth damage model
    A bit more in the set ups menu, at least tire pressure and fuel
    Mandatory pit stops

    For the content side of things:
    The Scandinavian tracks!!! :D
     
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  13. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Heppsan!! I so wish that GSCE had a season editor like Race 07. With the ability to convert rFactor mods to GSCE, it seems like most all the mods are available on GSCE (WTCC15, Formula E, etc) and it just feels a bit less fun than Race 07
     
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  14. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    That's well put heppsan. Race 07 is a fairly complete sim. It just has lots of features, tracks, and even cars that the newer sims just dont have. For that reason, it is still absolutely worth playing.

    To say that the physics are inferior to modern sims is a bit of a misnomer. Race 07 was based on the rFactor engine... and rF1 is regarded by many as the best sim ever and the gold standard... (I would debate that point but I digress) Race 07 has a unique feel to it, but I dont think it has inferior physics/handling wise in many ways, if at all. Sure AC has some advanced physics, but it still lacks quite a lot to be a good racing game. Sure the FFB is worlds better in R3E, but I find the physics to be a bit odd on occasion. Sure iRacing has better MP, but who wants to pay hundreds of bucks to get going. Race 07, and this entire Simbin catalog are just the best package available imo.

    Perhaps if the FFB of Race 07 were a bit better like in R3E's there would be more positive opinions of how it holds up. I think that is one of the shortfalls it does have. Modern sims there certainly seem to have the edge.

    Im not trying to overly defend Race 07, but I just think that the opinions that it doesnt hold up at all are nonsense. :p
     
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  15. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    The only wish I had for Race 07 was that I could get it to handle just like R3E so I didn't take 15 minutes or so after playing 07 to get right in R3E.
     
  16. Sean Kenney

    Sean Kenney Well-Known Member

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    debating on whether to get this or not....I just can't see myself having enough time for it. Need more hours in the day.
     
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  17. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    Sean it's honestly worth it. GT Legends is amazing as is the whole suite of Race 07 and GTR1 and 2. You could have billions of hours of racing. I think I bought each piece individually
     
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  18. ozcanuck55

    ozcanuck55 Well-Known Member

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    Night racing in the rain at LeMans....STCC....Old school Volvo's?
     
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  19. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    Is it worth 8 bucks to you to play Race 07 and drive an Aston Martin GT3 car around Macau? Or Marrakech? Or Istanbul? Or Norschleife?

    Or 3 full seasons of WTCC cars... 2 full seasons of STCC cars. Koenigsegg, Gumpert, and Pagani. Dodge Vipers, Chevy Corvette cr5 and 6 race cars...

    What about various Caterham and Radicals at Brno or the shorter Swedish circuits?

    What about a full grid of 2003 GT cars tearing up Spa and lemans like ozcanuck mentioned?

    What about all the vintage cars in GT Legends?

    Goodness gracious for 8 bucks, what better value in simracing is there? 8 bucks wont even buy you a single car or track in something like iRacing... And this pack has tons of content. ;)
     
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  20. Ernie

    Ernie Well-Known Member

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    Agree that Race07/GTR Evolution (+addons) is still a great package, even if it shows its age now. But great selection of cars and tracks.:cool: I've raced over 2500 hours with GTR Evolution (mostly league races) and still do from time to time.

    But i just wonder, who get's the money for this bundle now, because Simbin is dead. Is it Sector3? Is it Raceroom? Or is it just to fill some lawyers pockets?:confused:
     
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