The Assetto Corsa thread

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Skybird, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. Emerson Meyer

    Emerson Meyer Well-Known Member

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    You guys think I'm kidding?

    After one new build in iRacing, it was observed by the fanboys, a "very realistic new car behaviour...like in real life".... hard gear engaging, (and easy gear disengaging), in at that time almost new McLaren.

    A couple of days later a hot fix was launched... yup...it was a bug.

    By the way, I'm not thrashing AC.

    But sorry, AC it's not the holy grail of sim racing. There is not such a game.
     
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  2. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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  3. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Unlike our little forum, one cannot even view their forum without registering...I bet there's something fishy going on in there..^^
    Trashing, knee jerk slamming? Not really seeing what you're seeing tbh. The discussing point was mainly AI and everybody who criticised it, like me, said that the game does have its upsides, mainly the driving physics, FFB and car models, but when it comes to the actual racing part of this racing sim it is subpar to its competition.

    I surely don't hope my feces-analogy was taken literally. I never intended to say the product is a piece of shit but that the way those things are handled by the dev and then praised upon by large parts of the community is ridiculous and I did so with tongue in cheek. I still haven't lost hope that a little humour isn't mistaken and can be endured, even by die hard fans.

    I stand by my point, which is always a personal one and hence cannot be denied: AC's cars look great, the tracks not so much. It drives very nicely and the feeling it delivers is excellent. But when it comes to racing, not just driving, it doesn't deliver, which is a shame.

    If you got 300 hours of fun out of it, good for you. I and apparently some others haven't and I think we are entitled to our opinion and the voicing of it just like you are without having to apologize in advance for not being as delighted as you are.

    Now they go the pC route, bringing it to consoles, making it look like they are confident in the state the sim is in as this will eat up manpower that would be needed to tackle those issues mentioned.
     
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  4. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I apologize, I should have remembered that. They keep their forum locked they said last year because they dislike the idea that pirates and thieves of their software could nevertheless collect helpful information from their site. If the forum account does not get linked to a steam account within reasonable time, the forum account gets deleted again. The steam account serves as proof for having legally bought the software. I can understand that approach. But of course it pisses interested new players that still have not made up their mind about whether to buy AC or not and so wanted to check the community on what is going on, and the state of the program.

    Here is the readme:

    1.2.2
    - Fixed acd files reading wrong values creating problems with 4WD (possibly other cars)
    - Corrected Nissan GT-R Nismo fuel tank capacity
    - Corrected Nissan GT-R Nismo auto clutch assist engadgement
    - Corrected Nissan GT-R Nismo weight figure on Interface spech data description (does not affect physics)
    - Corrected Nissan GT-R Nismo skins' names.
    - Added skin template for Audi Sport quattro
    - Improved Audi Sport quattro skins
    - Fixed Alfa Giulietta argento skin
    - Fixed BMW Z4 red skin
    - Corrected low fuel consumption for Lamborghini Miura, adjusted for the rest of the bonus pack cars
    - Corrected Audi Sport quattro S1 turbo pressure dial
    - Added DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL in assetto_corsa.ini to allow for some residual FF damping once the car is moving (default is 0)
    - Small tweak to relaxation length variation vs tyre load
    - Corrected Abarth 500 and S1 semislicks tyre heating and small corrections in alignment and bumpstops
    - Fixed ghost car
    - Corrected Alfa Romeo 155 DTM setup antiroll bar missing, plus some minor adjustments in suspension geometry and differentials
    - Added ksBrakeDisc shader to allow modders to implement glowing brakes
    - Removed log messages for Python function "getTexture" because some python app dev thought: "Hey, what a nice function! I will call it every frame instead of caching the result" resulting in >60mb logs and stuttering and 10 years less in the life expectance of the AC support guys

    On the AI, once again: there have been a major breakthrough, but the AI in total still is no completed task. It is much better now than it was before 1.2, but still lacks compared to titles like R3E or GSCE or, as some say, rF2, in this regard. The gap has been narrowed significantly - but there still is good work to be done before this gap can be considered as "closed". But I cannot stress it often enough - ALL of my racing with 1.2 now have been acceptable experiences: no rammings, no car-train building, no denying by the AI to overtaking opportunities. All that are enormous improvements over post 1.2 AC, when it drove in trains all the time and never overtook.

    They need to keep digging, however, I absolutely agree. As explained, the AI's braking into many turns is terribly passive, and too early, for example. Also, track modders need to redesign the AI racelines.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  5. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    On the console thing, I happen to be hopeful. As I wrote in their forum, the audience and thus the expectations in the console world, are different from PC. But I do not see why a hardcore physics simulation should not be welcomed on console, since it shares so much of steering wheel hardware with the PC. And the CPU/RAM/GFX hardware of consoles can easily process code of the likes of AC these days.

    The real problem, if there is one, is content, there are established console titles and franchises offering thousands of tracks and cars and selling by insane numbers, and compared to that the number of tracks and cars in AC do lack a bit, even if counting the 50 cars that have been and will be released this year post-1.0, and even if these cars are of high quality and the driving on the tracks is excellent. Quantity matter more on consoles than on PC. Also, some things, and here especially the AI, need to be brought into a competitive state. If they are aware of this, then this means they will address these weaknesses - and then the move towards consoles means a huge chance and opportunity for the PC version seeing the same improvements as well - why would they spare the PC platforms from such improvements, if they are of sane mind?

    That'S why I am not critical of the console move, like some other people are. I focus less on the risk, and more on the chance it automatically means for the PC. Plus the additional income will mean a solid economic basis for the studio - the licenses for tracks and cars in the console release - all have been paid already! They would have been dumb if not going consoles after the huge selling success of AC. Mind you, sales numbers of AC outclassed any previous expectations of theirs.
     
  6. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Tnx for the changelog and no need to apologize. ;)
    Again, I surely hope you didn't take my comment too serious, just trying to have a little fun really which I hope is not too much to ask even of the fans of a certain product. It's always good to take a look at oneself now and then and realize ones own shortcomings and that they are not only ok but most of the times, when looked at from the right angle, funny as shit. ^^

    It's indeed good to see they are working on the weak spots and, unlike SMS, aren't total douches about their "failures".
    Tbh, I haven't tested the latest builds (as I have to see my mate who owns it and a decent wheel, and he can only bear me like once in a fortnight), but the AI still looks too slow in general though.

    At least they are doing it the right way around and port the PC version to the consoles, not vice versa like most other devs.
    I think there are more than enough console players who value quality over quantity, so the lack of content shouldn't be a show stopper. Makes me wonder how/if they are gonna implement the modding side of AC to consoles...

    It can be a chance, but seeing the state such crucial elements as AI are in I worry...just a bit. ;)
     
  7. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    One simple answer: Piracy protection. Go to any of the manyfold pirating sites and you will see that AC and pCARS are being pirated extensively.

    Those Swedes sure know how to keep them pirates at bay...^^
     
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  8. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, it's each to their own. For me, AC was £25 for a few hours of hotlapping and not many cars I was interested in (I have no interest in road cars or one-make series, my personal preference). I admired it, bit didn't enjoy it.

    I've spent about twice that in R3E (2x €35) and gotten way more enjoyment. I find it easier to work with, partially because of years using gMotor-based games, the content far more interesting and the offline racing far more immersive, both environmentally and with regards to the AI. And I've spent a lot less time with it than you have too!

    Now, I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, that's just how I feel about it.

    With the updates to AC, I look forward to checking it out. I'm disappointed that the 5 new vehicles are all dull (to me) road cars, but I just discovered that the URD GT mod is available on AC now, so I could be tempted to try that.

    I hope both games can succeed and find their niche, because I'd put both well ahead of Project CARS, which I once saw accurately summed up as a game not knowing what it wants to be. Again, it has superb potential, but they need to work out what they want from it (which, I fear, will be the same downfall for the very promising DiRT Rally).
     
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  9. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    @Rodger Davies

    I agree with your feelings on AC but, as a fellow GT3 fan, I do feel the game has some worth as a platform for GT3 races. It has four GT3 models with lots of liveries plus the potential for more official offerings or through mods. They have the Ferrari licence (though, strangely, no 458 GT3) plus Lamborghini which could mean a Huracan or Gallardo GT3 at some point. They have the Chevrolet C7R GT2 so maybe a GT3 version in future? I don't know, maybe someone more in the know can enlighten me on this.

    Obviously R3E is a more complete GT3 platform but there's no reason why AC couldn't rival it. The GT3 class (and GT2) is the closest thing AC has to a proper, multi-manufacturer series, something which it really needs to get my attention as I have little interest in racing single make series or odd cars from various classes with no stable mates to race.

    I ran a GT3 race against the AI at Donington last night and the experience was perfectly passable. Still a lot of work to do on the AI but it's not bad by any stretch. As far as I'm concerned the AI in R3E needs a lot of work too. At present it lacks character.
     
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  10. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, never took anythjing you said queer. Some other people's comments were what I aimed at. While I defend AC in general, convinced of its qualities, I am not blind to its currently weaker sides as well, namely the too pacifist AI.

    It probably is too slow indeed, but that has to be seen in relation to player's skill level, of course. I am only an enthusiastic nevertheless amateurish sim driver, and I do not care for messing with the car setups - the lap times of the AI are not my concern: if I do not grade down the AI to 90-92%, it eats me alive anyway, since I do not even set up the gears and not only do not drive on alien level, but also all too often do not even use a competitive setup. What I would like to see improved is the AI's braking into turns (it brakes too early, loosing too much time that way), the AI drivers producing closer laptimes so to keep their field of competitors closer together on track and provoking more "action" that way, and the general lack of surprising events and AI-AI duels. Also, more consistency in the reliability with the fast, potentially "instabile" cars. The AI handles slow cars quite well now, so that I can manouver in tight packs and three-wide rows with it, skin to skin, without getting bounced. But when it comes to Zondas, 599XX and Exos and the like, you see more unwanted contacts in tight turns and hairpins when events in front of the AI do not leave it enough time to react to them. These are the things I mean when saying "finetuning is needed". By tendency, it is the same in R3E: the more excentric the car, the harder a job for the AI it is.

    Most players still are single players in racing games, so to have an improved AI is essential for AC on console, if it should be able to conquer and defend its ground against the very stiff competition that already has established a very robust and huge player base (on the other hand: look at PC's crappy AI and make AI quality a selling argument... :D ). But to claim, like some people do, that AC cannot succeed on console because it is "just a console", is beyond me. As I said, consoles can use similiar wheel and pedal hardware like PC drivers and can perfectly negotiate a driving simulation's software code in terms of CPU power. I smell a bit of unfounded elitism in such devaluing comments. Occasionally you hear such statements.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  11. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    The GT2/3/C cars belong to those the AI can run better than for example super sport cars. However, I recommend to try driving and racing in the older "beast" there are: The RUF Yellowbird, the Ferrari F40, now the new suicide machine, the Lambo Miura. Getting into the right swing with these - admitted: difficult to drive - beasts, means true and full reward.

    And often underestimated: the huge collection of Lotus cars there is. It took me quite some time to learn to like them. But some of them are really exquisit track weapons, with their speed and performance levels in a range where the AI mostly can handle them well enough now. I now frequently drive them, especially on smaller, twisty tracks.

    P.S.
    And just btw, the GT3 versions of the Huracan and Gallardo - are already confirmed to come. ;)
     
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  12. garytc78

    garytc78 Member

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    Very very strange opinions regarding the AI in R3E.... They ram you almost all the time and do lots of innacurate overtakings.... Not so much better than in AC to be honest. Also they very often do form an annoying car-train , very similar to AC at its initial stages
     
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  13. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Strange that it does not happen to me. Contacts: yes, you shrugg shoulders and drive on. Ramming me? Only when I do something stupid in front of them and leave them no time to react to my folly in time. Like in AC, that factor, time, plays a greater role the faster moving and/or accelerating the car is. I have no problems in GT2 and GT3, for example, or DTM92. In GTX - I pay special attention to whether somebody is close behind me or not. If there is somebody, I drive more cautiously, not to mess up in front of him and getting shot at - inevitably.

    Something that people often oversee: their own behavior as an influence of whether the AI is "ramming" you, or not. What if you drive in such a way that the AI cannot avoid colliding with you? I adapted my driving, and since then have a much better life after I understood that it was not them - but me.

    And mind you: many people drive in a simulation that nobody with a sane mind would dare to drive like in reality.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  14. garytc78

    garytc78 Member

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    OK, i think you got the pont :)
     
  15. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    And another small 3 MB-hotfix is online. No info on its content so far.
     
  16. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I just really hate that every off topic thread about another sim turns into what has happened in this thread. Can we not respect one another's opinions and realize that maybe someone else is not "wrong" because they don't feel the same way you do, or realize that honestly some of us aren't seeing the crazy issues that others are and take that as fact not as just "fanboys with their blinders on"? For goodness sakes, in this thread we had someone launch into an F bomb tirade against another member, and in the other off topic thread about Project Cars, we had someone calling folks "dicks" for complaining about a new game being launched right after the completion of another one. If you don't agree with someone that's fine, but there's no need to make things personal. For games to improve (yes even R3E) a healthy dose of criticism with some constructive feedback helps.


    Edited to add the Too Long Didn't Read Explanation
    The personal attacks need to stop now because someone doesn't agree with you. Not only in this thread but in all threads.
     
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  17. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, but I'm just not interested in racing those cars. I'm all about modern race cars and AC is a little lacking in this department. Still, a well-stocked GT3 class is enough to keep me on board with AC.

    Thanks for the Lambo info. What about Ferrari? I'm very surprised there is no 458 GT3. What about the Audi R8 LMS Ultra or the Chevy Camaro/C6R/C7R GT3? They already have content from these brands so I'm just curious as to whether GT3 models are being worked on.
     
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  18. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think Kunos is happy to let third parties mod GT3 Content into the game James which is a mistake in my opinion. Call me biased, but the Nissan GTR3 in AC is my favorite car. I've driven it 10x more than the other cars. I'd love to see a full GT3 class from Kunos to compliment that, but I don't think we will.
     
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  19. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're wrong. GT3 is always one of the most popular classes in any game.
     
  20. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I hope I am too, but there's honestly no explanation for why we haven't seen a more filled out GT3 Class in AC. They have the Ferrari, Chevrolet, Lambo, and Audi license.
     
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