Penalty & flags

This flags rules makes a big discussions and arguing which is good.
My opinion tha they are good. It should be developed but base is good.
But,
Problems with cars that stay on track for a while, it should be damage or someone waiting for someone to revenge. GAme should remove this cars after some period.
For eg. if car stays on track or near track belowe racing speed (I mean very below racing speed) for about 30 sec. more or less, should be automaticly remove from game because you don't need 30 sec. to recover Yourself.

 

I disagree, wozdecky. There are sometimes unexpected situations. For example, a couple of weeks ago my FFB was gone during the race, just gone from one second to the next. So I drove to a save place, restarted my base, lost a couple of positions and continued with working FFB again.
But the entire situation took me way more than 30 seconds. Kicking my off the server would have really pissed me off.

Another example. Couple of months ago I misculacalted the fuel and knew I wont have a chance to finish the last lap of a race over 60 minutes. To get some championship-points out of this race I parked my car during the final lap and got my points. With your proposal a DNF would have been my final result.

And a third example, which cant happen right now at R3E, but maybe it will be possible in the future. Last Friday we had a race over 90 minutes with Assetto. After 10 laps my game completely crashed. I wasnt even able to exit the game, so I had to kill every task. After rejoining I was four laps behind the leader, qualified fourth out of 17 guys though. For sure there wasnt anything to win for me in this situation, but I've continued anyways ... and overtook some cars twice til the end. But I constantly had a blue flag on my side, because the game only noticed I'm laps behind, and completely ignored the fact I'm faster.

Like in every game there will be always morons who will exploit something. And with too many penaltys and/or restrictions, you'll finally destroy the fun for decent drivers.

Just my $0.02 though.

 

It can be make setup for start exeption, of corse.

 

In reality this is real option, if You are too slow or stay near track or stoped on track You should be removed from track.
I thought about get real drivers. In our world serious drivers.
Our mistakes or problems shouldn't affect on other players.
Fuel mistake is strategic problem and shoudn't be awarded with points if not finished race. In other there's no sense.
Why racing, and strategy and all of this. We can just wrack fest and that's it. There's also games for that kind of drivers.

 

And here we already have the first exeption, which could be exploided.

Personally I thought a couple of times myself, penalties at the first corner within the first lap are completely insane. Many times you are forced to go wide or to cut, just to avoild a collision, and for that you get penalised. Happened to me two weeks ago, first corner at Moscow. To avoid a collision i went too hard over the curb at turn #1, result was a DTP .... after around 200 metres.

On the other hand, disabeling penalties within the first lap would result in so called racers cutting the first chicane at e.g. Monza. So there is always pro and cons.

I totally get your intention, and I dont mean to offend you. Just showing the cons.

 

Yeah, this was one of my ideas too. It makes sense to me to disable penalties for the first lap while everyone is bunched up and fighting for position. Or at least for T1 on the first lap. Having 3 cars go side by side through T1... and someone is bound to cut or run slightly wide.

But yeah, sadly my idea has been shot down as this is posed as the problem to this idea. Less than sportsmanlike people will just completely cut the track. So penalties prevent people from being scumbags.

Although I would still like no T1 penalties. But hey, I like racing with respectful people and wouldnt have any problem with people trying to cheat a little bit

 

The current penalty system is way too harsh. I posted this in another thread already. I did a double race at Monza yesterday, using WTCC 2016 cars and 110% AI.
In race 1 all cars except one received drive throughs, a number of them retired.
In race 2 all cars except two received drive throughs, 12 of 20 AI retired!

Why not treat AI like human players and give them a warning first? As it is now, there is barely a race left on tracks like Monza (in singleplayer).

 

I think this depends on the severity of the cut, and your penalty settings.

A player would get a drive through for cutting T1 at monza or many other tracks too, this isnt unique to the AI.

The problem is the AI retiring or being DQ'd for not serving their penalties. But I believe this is being looked into.

 

Just an observation that might help - judging from the replay the AI served their Drive Throughs and then drove to the pits again and retired.

I drove behind AI when they received their DTP and they are just hitting the "sausage kerb". A cut yes, but when 19 cars out of 21 receive Drive throughs, maybe we can find another solution? No idea if that would be possible, but maybe check if AI gained a place due to the cut, if not just warn him. Or maybe there could be an algorhythm to check the speed during the cut and compare it to normal race speed. Most cuts occured when a dense field squeezed through the chicane so they were a lot slower than in race speed. Just two ideas

 

Cheers, thanks for the info. Definitely useful.

Your first point though is quite weird. If the AI served their drive throughs... I have no idea why they would retire after that lol.

 

It was observed by others as well:
https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...gh-penalties-make-the-ai-retire-the-car.7681/
Funny behaviour. On the other hand, yesterday's WTCC race showed the real boys act quite weird at times as well (second race, guys going through the pit lane under safety car instead of staying on the track)

 

There is an quite easy solution, Nate: Make it an optional server side setting and let the server host decide whether to use it or not.
Either disable penalties for x laps, or - preferred by myself - for x seconds.

Usually at a track like e.g. Monza, Indianapolis and Mid Ohio no decent host would disable the penalties, but on tracks like e.g. Spielberg, Hockenheim and Moscow it just makes sense to have this option.

 

Yeah, a lot of interesting an some extreme arguing.
1. Taking position by going out of track is in real racing forbid.
2. Repeating same place cutting more than once is also warning and possible penalty in real racing.
3. disabeling penalties is not good cause it opens too much problems.
4. Everything can be regulate by game. # time cut the same chicane or hairpin or outi of curve should be some kind of penalties. Taking over outside of track should be forced to taking back position or penalties.

etc.

 

Surely there is a minimum amount of time for a vehicle to get to a certain point on the track (eg. top leaderboard time) so is it not possible to just set this minimum point xx meters past the corner, where upon cutters are penalized, yet the innocent "Racing Incident" parties are ignored? Does this not eliminate cut throats yet allows for the odd misdemeanour, such as being rear ended off the track etc. etc. etc. etc. etc ....................................................
A parameter could be set of say half a second, allowing for genuine faster laps to register or maybe a percentage of the mean time.

Is this not possible J-F Chardon or have I missed the obvious flaw?

 

Totally agree on turn 1 penalties...for turn 1, lap 1, wonder if the inbounds could ve widened depending on how many cars abreast or nearby. If crew chief knows where the cars are, the engine does too. This would prevent exploits (for example leader could not cut, since not in a crowd) but the guy in 16th going around 5 sideways cars would get a large inbounds area. After 1st lap, logic is disabled.

 

The flags and / or penalties are for public driving not good it only need someone at the edge of the parking lot so the yellow is and already one gets a penalty at the overtaking clear it is in genuine also so in real parks a car not all the time at the stretch rand , Cars who stand longer than 10sec have to DSQ.
Edit
And when Player left the Game you become a penalty Because it is rated as overtaking
sorry Googel Übersetzter

 

Here's a report on last night's racing regarding the new flags:

First a DTM race, I managed to get to the end without a penalty however I did have to give a position back after overtaking a car that had spun and was accelerating back to racing pace which I don't think was correct, if I had to slow down to his pace, it could cause far more harm than good.

Then there was another race at Spa where I started from the back with a Saleen in Spa. It was bound to get messy with 20+ cars going into La Source and so it did, I tried to play it safe into the corner but then got hit from behind and ended up passing a few cars that were stopped or almost stopped, when I'm safely out of the corner, finally I have an opportunity to see the flag text and it says I have to give back 3 positions in about 5 secs, I slowed down on the side but wasn't overtaken by 3 cars on time so that's it, a race to forget...

So what can be improved? If you're too close to the incident, you should be exempt from the yellow flag penalties or maybe in the first x seconds of the incident there's no penalties and also I think we need more time to give positions back, when it starts counting down you're in the middle of an accident, you can only look at it when it's over and then it might be too late.

I think the system needs to be fair, it's better to have a minimal system which could possibly let some drivers get away with infringement but also doesn't punish drivers who did nothing wrong, it's not fun to be a victim of injustice. The system also needs to be safer than before, if you force cars to slow abruptly and that in turn causes more accidents than having no flags at all then the system has failed its purpose.

Now on the bright side, the white flags are working beautifully and are really useful, I also did a race in the Nordschleife without full flags and the usefulness of being warned of possible crashes before blind corners was apparent, you can approach those corners with just a bit less commitment and that can be enough for you to be able to avoid a crash. On that race there was a crash blocking the road on the way up to Bergwerk and I was actually able to stop the car on time, unfortunately there was nowhere to go and a few seconds later someone else failed to brake on time!

 

The car right in front of me spun and caused a yellow flag. Even if I wanted to, I could do no other than passing him. This earned me a drive through. untenable!
I will have to resort to only black for our event tonight.

 

In my opinion, there is a pretty simple fix for the yellow flag problems: The overtaking ban should only come into effect after the yellow flag has been shown for a certain amount of time, for example 10 seconds. In real racing, drivers aren't able to react fast enough anyway when a yellow flag is only shown for a few seconds because another car left the road.