Well done. I couldn't resist buying all the new cars and it's one of the favourite classes for me atm. Hope there will be more MP races like yesterday evening as I was missing interesting combos of this class in the MP lobby. I'm happy that it has shift paddles and I don't have to put my H-shifter to the left side. As most tracks go to the right my main issue is that I just don't see the corner or apex or my used braking points for example the Hockenheim hairpin or some right corners in Zandvoort. But I love this GT-R, it's so relaxing and as soon you start to snore calmly the beast bites you and you lose it . A cross selling idea would be to offer triple screen next to this car. Nevertheless very nice job...
Isn't all this making already available ADAC pack cars available in the separate GT3 class as well? If there are differences between the cars in both classes, they are so subtle that I fail to notice them. I got each car for 80 cents or so. But for another five skins I should pay 2,50 Euros. Skins. Not the car. Honestly said it feels like having paid twice for the same content. This deal will serve as another incentive for people new to R3E to see it's business mode very critical. Raceroom Entertaining can twist and turn it like they want - the business model is a wide open invitation to say No to Raceroom. In one thread and in two private messages at AC forums I already had three people asking me about this GT3 car release when i posted it there, they wanted more details on the selling method. I explained, and explained the GT3 cars there are. All three afterwards rejected to check out Raceroom. - Don't attribute it to my way of explaining it.
Well then if they want to quibble over it then it's their loss. Mountains out of Molehills if you ask me. Did anyone force you to buy the new cars? No. Don't blame the business model for your personal and optional choices. The way this subject gets a constant bashing almost has to do more damage to Raceroom's rep than the actual business model itself does. Negativity breeds negativity, with new players coming here to do some research and seeing nothing but that negativity, and as far as I know the business model looks pretty unlikely to change. I'm not saying don't criticize it, it's free world, yet people make the same complaints about Iracing's subscriptions and content costs, or rfactor 2's online costs, or Assetto Corsa's DLC's and none of that is going to change either. It doesn't have to be dragged up in every second thread. How about some positive waves for a change. Also, the GTR3 Ruf is only available in the GTR3 class, it is not a double up
Except that those are not new content, they have been in the game for a while. What is there to test?
updated classes are fun and way too stiff imo, what u guys think about the 16 steering lock? 20-21 works for me
The damage they do all by themselves. The reputation they have gotten from it, they have created all by themselves. And I no longer defend against critics what essentially is a porked system. I could afford Raceroom, and I like the gameplay and looks. Nevertheless the business model - still is porked. And it will continue to cost them new customers. Many .
Do I tolerate the business model they have in order to play RaceRoom? Yes. Do I like it? Oh hell no, I hate it. It's the most convoluted mess I've ever seen. I may have spent close to $215 US for this game so far. Someone mentioned you can get it all for $100. Damn, I wish I had known that... For pete's sake, the liveries should all be offered in packs at the very LEAST. I have to say again that someone needs to drag a few key RaceRoom Entertainment money guys to the business model thread(s) to see the level of discontent with it. Someone needs to compile the info scattered through various threads and posts to show the RE people how few people are playing this game, and how slowly it's penetrating the market! I'm the only one of my friends who has RR, and they aren't willing to pay more than $35 for a beta. And yes, this game is a beta, a great one, but it's still a work in progress. And please don't say "All they need to do is buy a couple of packs," they aren't interested in that. They want the entire game, not pieces of it, but they will only pay a reasonable price for it, up to $60 when it's finished. I'm also holding out for a GTR-3 pack, and to buy DTM 2015/GT Masters, because the environment sounds they include with it are so messed up. I really don't want my game to sound like a cartoon. S3 needs to fix that.
Nice to see that sudden engine-damage is still possible after the introduction of the DSP. Somehow I've managed to burn out the engine of the vette today in a race @ Red Bull Ring...
Well I am not going to argue about it to be honest. I am also not about to defend the pricing or delivery systems, just as I am not about to try to change anyone's mind on the matter. It is how it is. This day and age, no matter what model Sector3 choose to employ to deliver their content, it going to be " waaa I am not going to nickel and dimed for this" or it will be "waaaa why do I have to buy all this stuff I'll never use, why can't I pick and choose" (*cough* assetto corsa *cough*) @Nigel Fox You have friends who won't try it because of the way it is sold now, but I have friends who have tried it and have then gone on to purchase content, because of the way it is sold now. Two sides to a story. A lot of the time I think it is simply nothing to do with the business model, and more to do with the stigma of "f2p", people are just unwilling to admit that in many cases, yet if they changed it to a more traditional model, there would be just as much bitching and people unwilling to pay larger amounts of money at a time. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If my 25+ years of gaming has taught me anything, is that there will always be people unhappy for some reason. Edit: And it being in 'beta' is a poor excuse in my book. Everything is in perpetual development these days. AC is up to .1.3.4, PC is what update 6? Iracing gets a new build every season. I lose count of how many gigabytes I burn through a month updating the so called "full release" games on my machine. And don't even get me started on anything like MOBA or MMORPG. They are still updating Everquest 1 last I looked. Back back on topic, I took the Ruf out for a spin last night around Zolder, whole different beast to the GTR2 machine, and about the only RT12 I have driven that I actually liked. It's nice to have an updated PC now to enjoy these things in all their glory..
I cant deny that the business model is terrible. It is nice you can buy what you want but at a price that is ridiculously high to the point that even Forza DLC looks cheap. When many people criticise the game for the same issue, that means that aspect of the game does have problems. No doubt other games doesnt have the option to pick and choose to buy the content you like, but most of the time, they price their content at reasonably cheap level and its generally comes with a good mixture of cars that most people would want it. I rather pay $10 for a track that I didnt really want(that I might like) with 3-4 cars that I want than paying $4 for one car with one livery. If R3E stops offering packs, I am sorry to say, I will be even less keen to buy content in this game because I still feel that I am getting price gouge for content. Especially other games offer their content in more reasonable regional pricing as I do not earn my money in dollars. In the mean time, it is unreasonable for me to spend so much money for liveries when other games, they do offer a decent amount of liveries when I buy their DLC and also offer custom livery options. I use different liveries for every race where having as many choice as possible is essential to my enjoyment in a game. You might be happy with one car and one livery, it doesnt mean it is the same for everyone. The game is amazing but the whole business model is messy. Regardless how I try to make it sounds nice to new players, they either buy 1-2 packs then abandon the game or refuse to try it due to high cost. There is a reason why other games has much higher population than this game, the business model is just terrible. The lack of developers confirming that there will be a pack is quite concerning, to be honest. Lastly, I sincerely hope that the lack of packs is due to Bentley Continental GT3 that is still in development that will be included in the GTR3 pack.
Well, you have to remember that there is a difference between those games and RR. While Assetto Corsa is a rather thin, shallow racing game, with a hodgepodge of cars and tracks, it's still a complete game with most of the features of a racing game. Project CARS is an even better game, except in the physics area which is even more basic in some ways than Gran Turismo 6. But it has pit stops, tire selection, fuel settings, setups, weather... a lot of things people have been clamoring for in RR. I noted in a previous post that these things aren't in RR because of the initial build approach. Yes, it's sucky, but this is what we're stuck with until S3 gets something substantially reworked. All the extra things like pitstops, time of day transitions, saveable setups and weather aren't quite so important to me, but I bring them up for the sake of those to which these matter a great deal. And as I say, we're paying an awful lot of money for a very incomplete game - including a bunch of separate liveries which come included with cars in other games. You can't ignore that other games are much better bargains, and are even more complete "experiences." If you choose to do so, just go all the way and admit that you don't care whether RaceRoom sells well or not. Because, great game or not, an incomplete game missing many elements people consider essential parts of a racing game, and sold at a high price, is going to flop on the market no matter how highly you or I regard it. That's the sad truth, and I hope the money guys are made aware of this, and are going to be both generous in their support and patient with S3 and our future friends buying it. If they are very generous, hopefully S3 can grow with some added team members, and things will improve a little faster.
@Cheeseman Of course it is not the same for everyone, that is obvious by the divided opinions that keep coming up.You feel it is terrible, I don't. I know people who would rather pay for that one car and one skin then pay for skins they will never use, as do myself. Packs are all fine and good but there is a good percentage of that content I will never use, and therefore is wasted money. For example, the Group 5 pack is still to expensive for my tastes, even on special, but I'd be happy to gradually unlock the odd car and the one skin I'll ever use for a few dollars out of my very limited income. I get the content I want, for the price I can manage. This may sound cliched, but I did literally spend more on a coffee at lunchtime the same day the new cars were released than I did on the cars themselves. And I did not get several dollars worth on unwanted content with it. And I have already gotten more quality time with those cars than I did with that coffee, which lasted about 45 seconds because I was desperate for caffeine. @Nigel Fox Yet when I look at Assetto Corsa, what I paid and what I actually get, it is not balanced out for me. I'm only glad I got it and the DLC for cheap, or else I'd be regretting paying for 60% of a title I never touch. Same as Pcars, I don't own it, but have played it several times, it is not worth the current asking price for me. I don't feel R3E is particularly high cost, because when I do the old price point per hour of enjoyment, this title is comparable or better with just about every other title I have played. To me it is not expensive. It's a matter of perspective. If you must have everything, every skin, every track then I say again that is a personal choice, not a fault of the business model. That would be like walking into an electronics store, buying all the televisions they had and then blaming them for it. I don't really know how to explain my view properly, but it seems to me the bulk of the anti business model arguments hinges on the assumption to be constantly throwing money at the store with little or no moderation. "we're paying an awful lot of money for a very incomplete game" you say, but why are you paying that much money for something you feel is lacking? And then placing the blame for it at Sector 3's feet? I'm sorry, I mean no personal offense, but I just don't understand that argument. Do I deny that the title is missing things that should be there? Hell no, give me tyre pressures, give me pit stops, give me the ability to save multiple setups and easily share them. Give me better damage models, tyre wear, fuel management. I'm not rabid fanboi who can't see the faults. I have faith that much of this is coming, and I am not about to bury the game due to the business model. In the end however, would a reduction in prices and/or a better packaging of content be good? Yes of course. Is the way it is done now the end of the world. Nope. My point is, the business model does not seem likely to change any time soon, it is how it is, and the way S3 generates it's income and as per my earlier post it is the constant negativity about the subject every five minutes does more harm then good, gives off a bad impression to those said newcomers and drives them away before they even try the title. I've seen it happen time and time again. Crying out how expensive it would be to get everything in the game, when all of it is 100% optional, is presenting an extreme outlook on it, and only one side of the argument. With moderation and savvy buying it is not as expensive to enjoy as it is being made out to be. Raceroom is hardly unique in this model, there are dozens of other titles out there that does this exactly the same, some that do it better, and many that do it far far worse. Edit: I will just add, before I give up on this topic, that of the people who I have spoken to about R3E who have decided not to give it a go, not one of them has (openly) stated the reason was the business model. I have heard every other excuse, ranging from "ahh that crap arcade Simbim game I tried in 2013" or "I just don't have time for another sim" or "There's no street cars" (thank god for that) etc etc. I guess my experiences are different from some.
and soo many people compain about the ffb some calling it worse than pcars. imo its better than ac but not everyone agrees.
As mentioned before, I do not earn my money in dollars which made every single content much more expensive than the price you. $4 is nothing for you as it just a price of coffee while for me, $4 is a lot of money in my local currency where I have have my meals for the whole day. It feels like, things are fine for you, therefore, it should be alright for everyone. You are fine with paying individual content, I am not and never will be because the pricing for individual content is absurdly high compared to packs. It is also why I am asking for packs because it gives me a much better value for money with my piss poor currency. I dont want to stuck with a R8 GT3 and 1 livery, I like to access all the GTR3 content because the pack pricing is a lot more reasonable and affordable for me. And having options is nice when it comes to games like R3E that every car is unique in it's handling, sound and visuals. It isnt something like Forza where every car physics is largely the same as the other which is why I have a PC and R3E in the first place. I drove every Group 5 cars in the game quite frequently, even though I can barely handle most of them(other than BMW) but I enjoy the unique challenges and feedback they give. Thats exactly why this kind of games on PC are fun. For me, it is pointless to own one car in a class with one livery. Even if I am buying individual content one by one, in the long run, the value for money would be even worse if I bought a pack. As mentioned many times, this kind of mentality is holding back R3E as it felt like people are opposing the idea of having cheaper content because they are fine with paying high price individual content. FFB is subjective, which many people seemed to forget. Some people might like Game A more, some people might like Game B more which at the end, there is no right or wrong answers when it comes to FFB personal preference.
Firstly, at what point did I say I was opposed to cheaper pricing? I don't recall ever saying that. If fact I believe I stated that cheaper pricing was a positive thing. What I did say is for me personally it is fine, and not as bad as many make out, and I don't think I ever said it had to be fine for you. Two sides of the argument. you put your point across, I put mine. Free speech and all you know. So I am not quite sure what kind of 'mentallity" you think I have, and I hope you are not starting to branch into the realm of personal attack here. I am not what you would call well off, in fact for my country I live below the poverty line. I've been unemployed for the last 3 years. Don't take me for someone who can and does throw money about willy nilly. I'm not. Secondly, where has it been stated that packs will be discontinued? GTR3 has so far to my knowledge never been offered as a pack, so nothing has changed there. And isn't there the chance it will be at some point? It seems to be a lot of chatter about it in this thread. Thirdly, I have no control over the rate of exchange of your currency anymore than I do mine. And neither has Sector 3. It's unfortunate for you that it is not as good as mine, but that s is the way it is. Again it boils down to personal responsibility to balance what you can afford and what you may have to wait for better situational finances. For reasons stated above, I understand it can be a bloody hassle to afford things. I have to manage, and buy on special. I think out of all the content I own, I think there was only one car that I paid full price for. Maybe two.
Have been over this all before, the whiners will whine no matter what! Raceroom gives all the opportunity to own and race in the class that appeals the most or a variation thereof or for some, you can own up to 80 cars and a plethora of great tracks, your choice, jeez, are some people just going to go on and on until they get their own way, perhaps the Devs need to add a stamping one's feet and a throwing one's toys out the pram emoticons to save some space for the rest of us!!