Question FFB - Center Spring Strength feels unatural on VRS DFP Wheelbase

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by snow, Sep 19, 2024.

  1. snow

    snow New Member

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    Hi guys,

    In general, Raceroom FFB feels realy good for me.
    But I have one issue, the (game) center spring is feeling unnatural because the strength seems to be mostly the same, e.g. understeer, oversteer, low/mid/high speed corners.

    Do you think there is a custom option to tweak the center spring strength based on single conditions?

    In the VRS configtool I already tried everything possible but without success.

    Thanks,
    Philipp
     
  2. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    No, there is no way to change that because all FFB in Raceroom (except Engine Vibration and Shift jolt) is physics-driven, i.e. it directly comes from the forces that affect steering column. There are no separate "effects" to tune.
     
  3. snow

    snow New Member

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    Yo, but the way the wheel will be centered is sure not physics-driven;)
    It feels very synthetic and unnatural, especailly for GT3 cars.
    The current DTM 1995 pack is feeling better on this point, but still not perfect.
    For an example, in ACC the center spring is feeling much more better and natural.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2024
  4. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about the feel, but it's all physics-driven now. That was the point of FFB remake, to get rid of any effects and only leave actual, real forces.

    But I can think of one factor that can create this "mostly the same strength" feeling by increasing FFB strength when it's low: "Force Feedback - Introducing dynamic linearity which will allow us to tune the forces on a per-car basis through steering geometry and power steering adjustments. It makes all the cars feel more grounded and solid to drive, particularly at low speed."
     
  5. snow

    snow New Member

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    I'm using the below settings, maybe there is anything wrong?

    VRS Config Tool:
    Rotation: 540°
    Max force: 50
    Damping: 0
    Friction: 0
    Inertia: 0
    Spring: 0
    Smoothing: Responsive 1
    Non-linearity: 0
    Slew rate: Quiet
    End stop max force: 0
    End stop stiffness: 5
    Soft end stop: Off
    Soft end stop degrees: 900°

    Ingame:
    Force Feedback: On
    Inverted Force Feedback: Off
    FFB Strength: 100%
    FFB Min Strength: 0%
    FFB Max Strength: 100%
    Static Friction: 50%
    Engine Vibration: 0%
    Reinforce unevenness: 90%
    Gear Effects: 0%
     
  6. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    That looks excessive on a DD, if you ask me. I personally only use around 10-15%.

    What does "quiet" mean? Is it fast slew rate or slow? If I even understand what that slew rate is, I'd keep it as fast as possible because this allows the wheel to follow FFB curve as precise as it can, thus bringing all small details in FFB, hopefully you won't need 90% bump amplification anymore.

    Although not sure if these two will help with your original issue.
     
  7. snow

    snow New Member

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    In the VRS Config Tool you have 3 different types of Slew rate:

    - Performance
    - Balanced
    - Qiuet

    upload_2024-9-24_21-30-52.png

    But this doesn't affect the behaviour of the game's center spring.
    I also tried with Slew rate set to "Performance" but I can't feel any difference.
    As suggested I decreased the Ingame option "Reinforce unevenness" below 15% but there is no difference as well.

    From what I can feel the strength the weel will be centered to the middle is mostly the same which means corner entry > corner middle > corner exit.
    Another thing that also feels very synthetic is when the car oversteers on corner exit and you try to catch the counter commuter/swing.

    Maybe my expectations are too high, but ACC for an example feels realy good and natural on this point.
     
  8. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    No difference for your centering force issue or no difference at all?

    What's synthetic about it? That centering force decreases?
     
  9. snow

    snow New Member

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    Regarding the decreased Ingame option "Reinforce unevenness" below 15%, there is no difference on the centering force issue.
    Regarding the oversteer and counter commuter/swing, in this case the game tries to center the wheel way with too much strength and this feels more like a rubber band for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2024
  10. joeycook719

    joeycook719 New Member

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    Well, I was going to start by recommending the VRS discord, but I see you're already there.

    The self-centering forces in a car are driven by the caster angle and suspension jacking. Two different cars won't feel the same and two identical cars with different steering alignment values won't feel the same. Therefore, the physics driven ffb is likely giving an accurate feel for self-centering BECAUSE it isn't using a simulated spring force. My main recommendation would be to have the ffb multiplier keybinds set up and monitor your ffb signal while cornering. You may find it helpful to adjust each vehicle's multiplier.

    Beyond that, I would recommend not using any smoothing and turning the slew rate all the way up. The raw ffb data in r3e is awesome and you're going to be missing some of it with a low slew rate and then filtering more of it out with smoothing. (Grain of salt, I don't have a VRS wheelbase, I use a simagic base.)
     
  11. snow

    snow New Member

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    Turned off smoothing and using fastest slew rate.
    From what I can see the synthetic center feeling doesn't change, but there is one important thing.

    When decreasing the FFB multi (in this case when driving the 488 GT3) down between 0.9 - 1.2 it's feeling much more better.
    On the other side the overall FFB strength will be reduced a bit too much.
    But for a compromise it's ok for me.

    Regarding the FFB strength I'm currently using the below values:

    VRS Config Tool - Max force: 60%
    Ingame - FFB Strength: 100%
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2024 at 3:18 PM