Hello, I am relatively new to R3E. In AC or AMS, I typically float gears (i.e. shift without the clutch) on manual dog-ring racing transmissions, both when upshifting and downshifting. This is realistically applicable to dogboxes. On downshifts, I blip the throttle with the necessary amount while briefly going through neutral, depending on the rpm, the gear, and if I skip gears (with H-pattern gearboxes) or not. There is a narrow rpm window when one can downshift this way, but if one's rev-matching is off, the shift fails and/or grinding sound and gearbox damage are registered. I have trained myself to do it with focus and precision to avoid grinding, which allows me to spare heel-toeing and utilize left-foot braking throughout the entire lap. It can be highly useful, especially for hot laps. On R3E, the technique does not seem to work as it does in AC and AMS (tested on Crossle 90F and DTM 92) - I can upshift clutchlessly, but no matter the rev-match, R3E always registers gearbox damage on downshifts. Is this possibility to downshift implemented, or am I missing something? At least, I'd expect it to register only minimal damage when rev-matched, but it seems to register the same amount regardless.
There is a kind of downshift protection applied to the H pattern gear shifts whereby you can't redline-downshift, that is, a skip shift from say, 6th to 2nd, will grind and fail to engage the lower gear if the road speed is too high for that gear and the engine is redlining its tits off. It was implemented, I believe, to stop any unfair avantage H patterns had in the leaderboard laps due to the ability to skip gears and not blow the engine in the redline. The result is that using the H gate shifting is usually slower than someone using paddles in the same car as you really need to be mindful of the roadspeed and the engine speed when downchanging. You could argue that it is more realistic than other sims - even AC which has a pretty good clutch model fudges the shift timings a bit in your favour - but man, is it annoying when you are 2kph over the allowed roadspeed on the downchange and it fails to engage.
Since when is this a thing? All I ever heard is that shifting with manual clutch can be done much faster than autoclutch, and you get a noticeable advantage in lap times because of that.
I think we are not on the same page. You don't have to redline, and I certainly don't. I'm referring to clutchless downshifts, including just by one gear. Properly executed, these shifts don't overrev the engine and work just fine. You just need to match the rpm for the low gear by blipping with precise throttle control. You can also skip-shift clutchlessly, provided you wait a bit longer for the rpm to drop in the braking zone, and then rev-match with a bigger blip right before the turn-in point. Let me illustrate with a piece of telemetry data from AC from about 2 weeks ago (some of the micro-fluctuations of the pedal pressures are due to pedal problems I've been having these days that await resolution). Right in the middle, while braking with the left foot, I briefly blip going from 4th through neutral to 2nd. I don't touch the clutch. A bit later, I downshift from 3rd to 2nd. Correct rev-matches, within a narrow rpm range, immediately engage the gear and don't accumulate gearbox damage. But the technique always causes damage to the gearbox in R3E. This behaviour doesn't seem to differ from the (sensible) damage caused by simply slamming the shifter to any low gear, with no regard for the rpm.
I understand what you are saying - clutchless H gate downshifts are near impossible in R3E. My point about the quasi-downshift protection on H pattern shifts is that it's a kind of artificial gate to fast heel and toe downshifts that happen too fast for the game's liking. It wont let you change from 5th to 2nd say, with the clutch depressed and no load on the gearbox, if the roadspeed - not engine speed- is too high. you can let the revs fall to zero but if the roadspeed (wheel speed) is still around the 5th/4th/3rd gear speed then it locks you out, clutch or no clutch. It's an artificial downshift protection and that's what is preventing you from shifting down without a clutch. I can't speak to the other guy and autoclutch shifts in H pattern cars as I don't use it. I've found I need to just go down through the gears one by one when heel - toeing as it allows you the time to find the next gear's upper limits regarding roadspeed. By comparison, AC and AMS2 let you get away with more when downshifting.
It still downshifts, but it damages the gearbox all the same, no matter if you rev-match or not. This is under braking, with the wheel speed reduced from 3rd to 2nd, to use your parlance. And the wheels, through the differential, go to the output shaft. Admittedly, I give more credit to AC and AMS (1 & 2) in that department with regards to realism, because the determining factor of a good downshift is if you match the RPM of the input and output shafts, which I do. One can check out YouTube videos of real-life clutchless dogbox shifts. On upshifts, you lift to unload the transmission and firmly and decisively place the stick in the higher gear - this works in R3E. On downshifts, you blip going out of gear through neutral and place it in the lower gear - this never works smoothly in R3E, but it should. In AC, it works provided you rev-match the shafts closely, as it should be done. If you don't (over-rev or under-rev), it damages the transmission and doesn't get into gear. IMO, iRacing does best in simulating different transmission types. For example,