Just a small addition. Here, in Greece,the true source of the problem is the banks.Up until 2010 they were getting money from the European Central Bank nearly free.The CEOs of them made very very poor use of that money (giving huge loans to friends and political parties ).Those guys never paid anything back and the government was forced (or was willing) to let those debts fall on the tax payers. Its whole long story from there that will take pages to get into.
You 'avin a larf, Boris is a facist, egotistical, Bafoon, well capable of bringing us to our knees and knowing the shallow, media driven society Britain had become, Boris will be ruffling his hair in the mirror at number 10 in the very near future! Independence day my arse! Incomprehensible day more like, tossers are already rescinding on their promises, as smoke screens tend to blow away being bombarded with all that hot air, anyone fool enough to fall for the ravings of Boris, Farrage and Murdoch should seek mental health care immediately, youm sick!
Need to be very careful that things said in here don't get needlessly accusing or upsetting. No matter what political views we may hold, don't tar an entire countries population with the same brush, British, German, or any other. We may have voted to leave the EU here today, but that isn't a big "F you" to people based on where they live, the language they speak or any other reason.
Nah it's those siding with Blair, Geldof and Clarkson that are in dire need of mental health treatment. Also the "youth" of Britain are clearly "blaming" the older generations for this......I for one am extremely happy that the types that watch tripe like TOWIE, Geordie Shore and Made in Chelsea have NOT won out this time and the elder states people who have the experience and knowledge to make an informed decision have won.
Agree with sylverflyre,let's not turn this into a nation vs nation debate.When the problem lies with the reams and reams of miss information dealt by both sides.The whole campaign has been fueled by lies,and nationalistic jingoism.Also the politicians once again showed us how out of touch they are with the common man.The "IN" campaign just did not grasp the immigration issue at all,and that at the end of the day won out.Today feels like a house of cards in the UK,
Well,that money was mostly spent buying German products so it became a vicious cycle. German banks were giving money to their counterparts here and the people used it to buy goods from German factories. Essentially we are talking about money laundering...
I live in EU and Euro nation and would've voted remain, if the referendum would've been held in my country. Why? While I definitely don't think that EU is in any way perfect institution, the free trade agenda, liberty of movement of goods and people and such are important to me. I'm a guy having a classic liberal ideals complemented with libertarian ones, also certainly nationalistic and thus some perhaps would say that I'm also a tad conservative. Anyway, either those explain my view or not, it is how it goes anyway. Realities are that most European nations are relatively small, even the bigger ones (though UK is certainly just few of the "world caliber" countries in Europe) whether you look at economy, foreign policy/military power, that is power in general, and I believe together we can make an much more impact on the world. Sure, there are problems like the immigration and financial crisis, but those are tests that have no precedent in EU history and needs to be solved and looking at both, they are at least going in to a positive direction. Both are something that would've hit EU countries nontethless, with or without EU and it is impossible to say where we would be without EU now, better or worse. All in all, things are IMO far more complicated than just being a member or not: world economy is what it is, so is geography. I still wish all the best for the future non-EU UK and sincerely hope that you made the best decision for the Britain. I defenitely respect the referendum result. And this will be my last post in this forum about politics, I promise
Sounds like you're close to filing a major fraud trial. It's all good, alesi was the one saying it's Germanys fault so that was just a little mockery because it's one of my points, scapegoatism being broadly used in politics and infused in arguments. The EU imposes cucumber laws on the UK, Germany is to blame for the fiscal irresponsibility in Greece, Greece caused the refugee crisis.... It's all bollocks cause it's simplifying complex issues to singular causes just to distract from the actual problems. But saying "we don't like XY so we don't play with them anymore" is just a bit childish I think.
Money laundering ? Like laundering drug money ? Yea, makes perfect sense ... About banks making a profit of thier business , where is the news ? Like 99.9 % of all banks in the world ,that's how they make thier money ? And again ... no money lend unless being asked first
Its a really complicated issue, and this forum is not the place for these type of discussions.I just want to clarify that I hold no grudge against common Germans(and I hope this goes both. ways ).I have some differences with their government and a couple of big companies there,but other than that I wish them the best.Just remember that the coin has two side on it.End of political discussion for me, back to the game.
actually its never the common people's fault even tho the puppeteers ,through the brain wash machine, have many of us,greeks,believe that every german scored a new beamer out of our sweat and that the lazy greeks made your money ouzo and souvlaki.While the corporate monkeys with the help of corrupt governments expanded their mythic fortunes with endless dirty deals(siemens,merc,bmw,submarines,many greek companies..)and dont forget the private euro banks that gained from the crysis. The important thing is that in order for the elite to pull their schemes they must divide and conquer the masses and the sad thing is they are so good at it cause they've been doing it for ever.So by taking advantage of our territorial reflexes they have us barking at each other once again,you have racist lowlifes growing like mushrooms everywhere,blaming the bad refugees,refugees created by the war mongering policies of the eu and nato in the first place...its so hard to keep hoping...
Just vote for me, I'll change everything. @alesi: I don't hold grudges against anybody, not even against our politicians. We should never forget that they aren't stupid nor evil. They do what their job requires them to do, and that is win elections by gathering votes. And while it might appear that they don't act on behalf of their clientele, we might find that they actually do, but we are not part of that clientele. I just believe that (international) solidarity is dwindling, which is very sad, and dangerous. It's a give and take game but some people now decide that they don't want to give and rather keep (what's supposedly theirs) to themselves.
I disagree with this. Imo what you write fuels just another story that the populists bank on. That the world is actually divided in elite that wants to pull over the rest and all sorts of conspiracy stories. It's imo an equally simple message opposing the fact that the world is just very complex and there are hardly simple solutions like what those people propagate. And it's exactly the same scheme always used: you blame a group of people (minority), that is responsible for more or less all the bad things. Or maybe I failed to understand your point some moderator should move this thread in off-topic?
Of course it is. They tried to push political unity far beyond popular support. Even for parts of their own country.
But what's the intrinsic value of popular support? Is a "democratic" decision just by all means? What would the populus decide if it was asked to decide on death penalty for rapists? There's more to democracy than majority rule, or as Tocqueville might have put it, tyranny of the majority.