Tire temperatures - setup helper

@MarcoP Short info, the Leon Cupra e-Racer isn't a FWD car, so all tires also the rear ones should be shown in the tool.

And maybe a feature request, can we have an option to chose also the rear tires for FWD cars, becaus on some tracks in would be great to stablize the rear of the i30n or the alfa with the tire settings

 

Unfortunately, the program doesn't work for me on Win7. I would have liked to test it to finally drive with the right tire pressures. Error message in the log: Error Rocky.Helpers.Helper NotDefindedLine 0: at least one error has occurred.

 

Hi guys. Is working with AMS2?

 

AFAIK is pretty useless to look at tyres temps in AMS2. No matter how you change camber and pressures, they are always pretty the same

 

It would work, but the tire model does not work like I thought it would. So all my work was useless because changing camber and pressure does not change the tire temps at all.

 

Don't know whether the program works, but the "camber and pressure doesn't influence the tyre temperature" is just not true.
AMS2 has a very intricate physical tyre model and pressure and camber absolutely influences the temperature.
Higher pressure for instance will overinflate the tyre which you will see in high temp in the middle of the tyre. Also, you will skid more, overheating the tyre massively.
The same goes for camber.
Is it perfect? No of course not, but nothing is.

 

Yet tyre model in ams2 is really weird, being kind

 

I think it's more a matter of: Some tyres need more fine-tuning/fleshing out.

Also, I think that Reiza are now gradually getting to really know the Madness engine.
That (an unknown physics engine for the devs), combined with a lot of bugs that came with it (of which multiple are still there) makes for a massive task to get it all refined completely.
Remember that the other sims are much more mature than AMS2.

Some cars have great tyres, other not yet.
I really like the Mini Cooper JCW (dry).

Edit: but this is all off topic and this thread is probably not the place for the AMS2 tyre discussion

Edit 2: And "intricate" in my original post should have been "complex" but couldn't come up with that word when I wrote it

 

Guys, I appreciate the very good information from you

 

I think to be fair we have to distinguish between cars.
Some cars are more or less spot on if you ask me.
As example the Formula Reiza and most of the Formula US cars are on level with the best of Racerooms cars.
Hehe again if you ask me

I hope Im allowed to say that there are some of Racerooms cars that can compete with the worst of AMS2s cars to be complete bullocs.
Easily

 

I believe it took Raceroom 6 or 7 years to get to the stage where tyre temps and flatspots were turned on in the game and @Alex Hodgkinson can probably say better than anyone how much work has gone into tyre modelling since he started on the job and what still needs to improved.

AMS2 is now almost 3 years old and includes variables such as dynamic weather, track temperature, dry/ dirty line plus some cars run on road tyres so there is a lot more meat on the bone to simulate and thus to put in the setup advisor.

It´s true that their current flatspot model is too extreme in terms of wear and that it shouldn´t be possible/feffective/faster to hoon around in Gr C or recent F1s power sliding through high speed corners, but on the other hand they have got the handling of low power non aero cars like the Formula Ford clone done better than in RRE- or at least until the driver´s pack cars were released, in my opinion.

Because AMS2 physics seem to be refined on a monthly basis, it´s probably not worth using the tyre temp tool till there is stability. I´ve only just started saving car setups for that same reason.

 

Kinda offtopic, but:
1) I'm pretty sure tyre temps were there before 2019/2020.
2) Raceroom started as a simcade and only a few years later it was decided it will be developed into a full sim. AMS2, even though it uses an engine that many would call simcade, was meant to be a sim from the beginning. Frequency of updates doesn't impress me if these updates keep changing the cars' behavior again and again almost if the devs have no direction of where they are going with it. When Alex creates or fixes a car or class, usually it feels "right" right away.
3) In Raceroom even if something doesn't change dynamically or at all doesn't necessarily mean it's not simulated. We have different surface grip (depending on the circuit), dirty tyres, brake cooling ducts, etc. Logically track surface and air temps should be a part of simulation too, even though they don't change between tracks or time of day.

 

Perhaps they were visible but not adjustable? I think the few cars still on older tyre models have the temps fixed.
https://forum.kw-studios.com/index.php?threads/the-march-2019-developer-notes.12862/

In AMS2 there are also more parameters that can be adjusted by the player, which indirectly influence tyre temps, such as brake duct openings and bump stops plus the different wet and dry tyres and using the wrong tyre for the track condition will automatically cause temperature imbalance.

 

It says pressure. You sure temps were locked too?

I just checked all classes that are still on old and V1 tyres (except KTM RR, I don't have it), they all have changing tyre temps, but on DTM 2014-16 they change only slightly which doesn't look like proper simulation to me...

But it shouldn't make pressure and camber adjustments useless, no?

 

I can´t be sure as I only started playing in early 2019 but for the purposes of this context it is the same as that was when the setup tool would have become useful. In fact, it took more than a year for most classes to get the adjustments and some still don´t or don´t work properly as you mention.

I wouldn´t say changes in AMS2 are useless, rather that the extent to which they apply are different from in RRE and that other changes have a greater effect. For example, running no brake cooling will make brakes overheat and transfer that temp to the rims and tyres. However since you can only modify front and rear but not sides, you may still get overtemp on one side and not be able to do anything about it. Similar to in RRE on a track like Zandvoort, the front left will always run hot no matter what is adjusted.

For me AMS2 is still in beta regarding tyre wear and it is a waste of time as next update something will change and with min steering lock set at up to 20 degrees on some cars, that is going to cause me more tyre wear than any janky setup will!

 

Tyre temperatures have always been there, but they always fluctuated around the ideal temperature on the oldest physics, so they didn't really make a difference back then.

 

I did not check for a while, but it looks like at least the camber settings are now relevant in ams2. May be even the pressures, I stopped testing with the old tire model.
Since there is a new tire model now, I will get back to testing as soon as possible.

 

I made some changes so the fuel calculation now works in AMS2.

Only the calculations for the camber make sense, because the data for the temperature distribution on the tire is always equally distributed in AMS2. As soon as the data is output correctly in AMS2, it is also calculated correctly.

 

I will add an option to display rear tires no matter which car is used. Then you will simply have to know which car is used in order to determine if the displayed adaptions make sense.

 

I added a setting to display rear tires for FWD cars. Please let me know if you have future feature requests.
Thanks for the hint.